We have been asked to do a ALTA for a Staples warehouse lot in an industrial park. About 8.7 acres and one big building on it...other pole lines, sewer easements etc. involved. and was surveyed in 1992 by a reputable local company.
So we don't do these in Nova Scotia but we can do basically the same thing in what we would call a location certificatefull survey comb.
Anyone want to advise about how much you would think a invoice would run for something similar where you are? We are just curious. We will look at it and price things as we think works for us.
I'd give a price but some holier-than-thou surveyor from some other part of the country will type a 5000 word thesis on how I'm killing the profession.
Tommy Young, post: 437808, member: 703 wrote: I'd give a price but some holier-than-thou surveyor from some other part of the country will type a 5000 word thesis on how I'm killing the profession.
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Mike Mac, post: 437806, member: 2901 wrote: We have been asked to do a ALTA for a Staples warehouse lot in an industrial park. About 8.7 acres and one big building on it...other pole lines, sewer easements etc. involved. and was surveyed in 1992 by a reputable local company.
So we don't do these in Nova Scotia but we can do basically the same thing in what we would call a location certificatefull survey comb.
Anyone want to advise about how much you would think a invoice would run for something similar where you are? We are just curious. We will look at it and price things as we think works for us.
I'd offer something but down here our government considers discussing things like this as "price fixing" because they have nothing better to do...
Mike Mac, post: 437806, member: 2901 wrote: We have been asked to do a ALTA for a Staples warehouse lot in an industrial park. About 8.7 acres and one big building on it...other pole lines, sewer easements etc. involved. and was surveyed in 1992 by a reputable local company.
So we don't do these in Nova Scotia but we can do basically the same thing in what we would call a location certificatefull survey comb.
Anyone want to advise about how much you would think a invoice would run for something similar where you are? We are just curious. We will look at it and price things as we think works for us.
[SARCASM]If you have any dignity at all, you'll just tell them your hourly rate and then it costs what it costs.[/SARCASM]
FrozenNorth, post: 437813, member: 10219 wrote: [SARCASM]If you have any dignity at all, you'll just tell them your hourly rate and then it costs what it costs.[/SARCASM]
Are you comfortable contracting services under those conditions?
A client deserves at least an estimate, even if it is a range from best case to worst case.
Of course, there is always an even worse case you just haven't run into yet!
Oh, sarcasm font - I retract my statement, except the part in italics.
FrozenNorth, post: 437813, member: 10219 wrote: [SARCASM]If you have any dignity at all, you'll just tell them your hourly rate and then it costs what it costs.[/SARCASM]
Not sure what my dignity has to do with my hourly rate but thanks anyway.
We normally only do hourly rates for construction, most everything else is a flat rate-this is our projected cost type of thing.
Also get that no one wants to be throwing out prices on a public forum. But from what I have read on here it seems to me to be quite an involved produce.
Mike Mac, post: 437851, member: 2901 wrote: Not sure what my dignity has to do with my hourly rate but thanks anyway.
We normally only do hourly rates for construction, most everything else is a flat rate-this is our projected cost type of thing.
Also get that no one wants to be throwing out prices on a public forum. But from what I have read on here it seems to me to be quite an involved produce.
I was being entirely sarcastic in a not-so-veiled reference to at least one poster who claims that T&M/T&E is the only ethical way to conduct work. If I were you, I would also expect to come up with a fixed-fee quote as you describe :cool:.
Try your best to estimate what you think it will cost you in time at your standard rate. Triple that number. You will then be close to what you are really going to end up doing once you learn all of the minute details that mean something to some papershuffler but to no one else in the universe. Do you take 200 hundred shots on parking stripes or sixteen shots? If they want a full topo, how close is a verified benchmark? What intervals on the topo? Will they accept a piece-o-crap computer-generated topo based on a few shots or one with several hundred to a thousand shots and the lines adjusted to correct for the real world instead of plines? How much time will you spend investigating everything they want in the certifications that probably involves little or no field work but a buttload of liability if you get it wrong? How much of a challenge is it to get the underground utilities located correctly? How many little weasel words are there in the contract and the certification they think you will be more than happy to sign without reading?
Don't get out the pencil until you have agreement on the Table A items.
If you like, you can fill it out for them and base your Fee on that.
Why work by the hour? The very best you can do is make wages.
Set a scope and a fixed fee... that way some actual profit can be made.
Mike Mac, post: 437851, member: 2901 wrote:
Also get that no one wants to be throwing out prices on a public forum. But from what I have read on here it seems to me to be quite an involved produce.
depends. if you're used to banging out surveys with the least effort possible, then yes it is. but if your work is typically very thorough, and you're used to charging as such, then assuming it's run-of-the-mill table A requirements, my standard issue ALTA proposal added $1000 to what i'd otherwise charge for my standard land title survey. that $1000 being, mainly, to offset the insurance premium that i'm forced to state i pay to have the privilege to perform ALTAs. otherwise, it's for covering the guaranteed uptick in comments you get from producing an ALTA. personally, i see zero value in the requirement for an ALTA, as i don't consider that i do any better work than i would otherwise. and, usually, doing one is a money maker insofar as i know my work, and i know that whether it has that certification on it or not it will most likely stand up to whosever scrutiny. but... if they want it they have to understand the cost of wanting it. because every once in a while you do end up with some paralegal hidden in a closet in a basement somewhere who has no other apparent purpose in life, or whose alarm clock every morning is the appearance of a new ALTA survey to review.
now, if they want aerial photography, or the confirmed location of underground fiber optic lines, then disregard everything in the paragraph above.
first rule is no number without a confirmed list of checked table a items.
flyin solo, post: 437874, member: 8089 wrote: first rule is no number without a confirmed list of checked table a items
In that case I just give 'em a quote assuming they want every optional item. Then each one they don't require increases the bottom line.
That holds true if your standard run-of-the-mill survey shows all improvements anyway. In other parts of the world, the boundary is king, the interior is unimportant.
Brokers take a percentage cut of the transaction value. For larger commercial/industrial ALTA's I use that method along with what the title insurance cost is as a gut check against the fee I work up. I try to look at it from the perspective of how much is the survey worth.
Peter Ehlert, post: 437864, member: 60 wrote: Don't get out the pencil until you have agreement on the Table A items.
If you like, you can fill it out for them and base your Fee on that.Why work by the hour? The very best you can do is make wages.
Set a scope and a fixed fee... that way some actual profit can be made.
You cannot get rich working hourly.
To the OP, what is the value of the survey?
We had an ALTA lined up. We had done everything on the site with permitting, construction and as builting. Our ALTA few was based on the value. Another surveyor under bid by 5k and had the nerve to brag about it. That is what is destroying the profession.
Holy Cow, post: 437886, member: 50 wrote: That holds true if your standard run-of-the-mill survey shows all improvements anyway. In other parts of the world, the boundary is king, the interior is unimportant.
Respectfully, I wonder how common this is. Granted, I work in an area that generally has much smaller land areas than most, but a much higher dollar value. I have never produced a plan that did not at the very least show the structures and other improvements (driveways, etc.) on a property. Sometimes we tone down the detail, but at the very least show buildings, drives, etc. Even on a recent 1100 acre conservation easement survey (a very large survey for my locale) we were required to show all structures and other obvious improvements.
How is there any spacial relationship for the client to percieve between the boundaries (for the most part invisible) and improvements (readily visible and tangible to the client) if the location of the improvements are not shown on the plan?
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Local Custom.
Out here, a boundary survey is boundary only. Easements get plotted for development plans and permitting, but not usually for a boundary survey. If a boundary has tight occupation, then sometimes fences and structures on the lines, or within a few feet,are added... unless the occupation is an important factor in the boundary determination.
And it goes to Public Record.
I am not saying it is better, but it is quite different than the East
I understand, different strokes for different folks, etc. As a side note, when my sister received a proposal for a boundary survey in Michigan, I was quite surprised to note that the proposal placed the impetus on her to provide the current deed, whereas our state association's code of ethics require surveyors to research the property back to creation (state statute says as far back as needed to ensure correctness...)
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Mike Mac, post: 437806, member: 2901 wrote: We have been asked to do a ALTA for a Staples warehouse lot in an industrial park. About 8.7 acres and one big building on it...other pole lines, sewer easements etc. involved. and was surveyed in 1992 by a reputable local company.
So we don't do these in Nova Scotia but we can do basically the same thing in what we would call a location certificatefull survey comb.
Anyone want to advise about how much you would think a invoice would run for something similar where you are? We are just curious. We will look at it and price things as we think works for us.
I would propose $15,000.00 or so. Nothing wrong with sharing pricing methods or figures. In fact, it's one of the things lacking in surveying education (in the U.S., don't know about Canada) that all other professions teach. It would be illegal for me to suggest we all get together and have some minimum fee for an ALTA survey.
Different expectations. A huge percentage of the time the entire focus for a new tract here is simply to have a set of words to put on a deed for conveyance purposes. Those calls come in all the time. Most existing tract surveys are to confirm where the boundaries are. The primary time for showing improvements is when a lender insists that be done and that is fairly rare.
This area was officially opened for settlement between 1855 and 1870. Some of my ancestors were in Paul's area over 300 years ago. When someone who could write created a document 300 years ago, that person probably had never seen the property and merely wrote down what the conveyor said. Everything here is tied back to the PLSS original surveys or later perpetuations thereof. All subdivisions have some tie to the PLSS starting points.
Traveling from the corner of 1200 Street and Idaho Road to the corner of 1400 Street and Iowa Road involves either driving one mile north then one mile east or driving one mile east then one mile north. Following the terrain is a rare occurrence. We have a great deal of space to utilize.
