My post to the recent, December 17,2014, thread [msg=294437]"digital sign and seal"[/msg] made reference to my earlier, [msg=294437]October 21, 2014[/msg], post which in turn linked to a 2009 article "Electronic Information Transfer Requirements" (pdf file) that included the following warnings to Ohio professional surveyors.
>Ohio Revised Code (ORC) 4733.14 includes the following: Plans, specifications, plats, reports, and all other engineering or surveying work products issued by a registrant shall be stamped with the seal and be signed and dated by the registrant or bear a computer-generated seal and electronic signature and date, but no person shall stamp, seal, or sign any documents after the registration of the registrant named thereon has expired or the registration has been revoked or suspended, unless the registration has been renewed or reissued. (Emphasis added)
>The State Architect’s Office response regarding electronic plans “We are in the process of implementing a state-wide Web-based project management system for management of Ohio Capital Improvements. We will indeed be asking the architects, engineers, and surveyors who perform work under contract with us to submit their documents electronically.”
In 2013 this office was combined with others to form the Ohio Facilities Construction Commission. The "Web-based project management system" has been adopted. In Ohio if you plan on working on any state funded project, other than highways, you are required by contract to supply electronic files. Naturally the standard contract documents are on line at the OFCC Documents page. The 2014-AUG Exhibit A - A/E Terms and Conditions (PDF) "State of Ohio Professional Services Agreements for Public Facility Construction" includes the following provisions:
- ...9.11 Facsimile Signatures
- ...9.11.1 Any party hereto may deliver a copy of its counterpart signature page to this Agreement via fax, e-mail, or webbased project management software. Each party hereto shall be entitled to rely upon a scanned or facsimile signature of any other party delivered in such a manner as if such signature were an original.
- ...9.1.7 The A/E shall provide Electronic Files (in native format) to the Contractor, Subcontractors, and Separate Consultants for their use in connection with the Project. The A/E shall provide the Electronic Files (1) at no additional cost to the Contractor, Subcontractors, Separate Consultants, or Owner and (2) without requiring the Contractor, Subcontractors, Separate Consultants, or Owner to agree to any terms or conditions concerning the provision, receipt, or use of the Electronic Files that differ in any material respect from the Contract.
- ...9.1.8 Use of Electronic Files.
- ...9.1.8.1 The Owner, Contracting Authority, A/E, and Contractor reasonably expect that they will provide Electronic Files to each other to facilitate the design and construction of the Project consistent with current practices and customs in the construction industry.
The combined result of the licensing law/rules and the contract requirements is that electronic certification of the files is required.
> > Electronic signatures are pretty cool. My client can print as many copies as they wish. But if they change even one pixel of the file, the signature is broken and can not be recovered. A notice appears that the signature is invalid. Print the invalid file all you want but my signature no longer appears.
> >
> > Larry P
>
> Larry, how did you implement this? Thanks.
>
> -V
I wanna know how too!
No time just now. Will try to make a post with step by step instructions later. Perhaps over the weekend. The process isn't difficult with Acrobat Pro IX.
Larry P
Thanks,
I will be checking back for the lesson.
B-)
> Thanks,
>
> I will be checking back for the lesson.
>
> B-)
Me too. :gammon:
Rarely print a hard copy except for recording or site plan purposes.
> - My signature never leaves my office copied (or scanned) - only an original signing.
That's been my method for many years. It crosses my desk in hard copy to bear my ink as the final deliverable, anything else is preliminary. No complaints and no regrets. Once it's recorded though, it's fair game as a matter of public record. Not much we can do about that for now, even with disclaimers.
For the life of me I have never understood all the gaga about "electronic seals". I bet Toys 'R Us has one for last minute Christmas shoppers.
Connecticut declaratory ruling
I like that. I may put a bug in people's ears who have regular contact with the BOR here in MA.
-V
:good: :good:
Electronic signature or no, can't the "culprit" just do a quality, high-resolution scan and have a good pdf of the plat that no longer has an electronic signature? I think it is difficult to stop the nefarious from doing their evil deeds. I would suggest that you have an original and that anyone who ends up with a plan that does not match your original has an illegal copy. I just don't see how not providing requested pdf's is any more unsafe than providing paper originals.
I guess I'm just old fashion, but I've been sending pdfs of pretty much every survey I do for the past 6 or 8 years. There is very little paper handling going on any more, or at least with any of my clients.
Electronic Signatures A more and more common request
Larry-
Your method is of great interest here too.
Please do educate us.
Thank you,
Derek
> No time just now. Will try to make a post with step by step instructions later. Perhaps over the weekend. The process isn't difficult with Acrobat Pro IX.
>
> Larry P
Creating a "certified" pdf with Acrobat Pro will work for most clients. However, it will not satisfy the Ohio Facilities Construction Commission requirements I cited in another [msg=294616]post[/msg] to this thread. Those require "9.1.7 The A/E shall provide Electronic Files (in native format) to the Contractor, Subcontractors, and Separate Consultants for their use in connection with the Project." I believe "native format" means CAD, word processing and spreadsheet files.
I expect this type of contract requirement to become common. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has included similar "native format" file requirements for over twenty years. Ohio Law requires that all work products be "signed and dated by the registrant or bear a computer-generated seal and electronic signature and date" as noted in my previous post. Most current versions of the leading software will support digital certification that will react similar to Larry's pdf file. If you are required by contract to hand over the file make sure you secure that file. Any alteration of your submitted file should invalidate your electronic certification.
