I have been receiving more and more requests for digital copies of stamped plans emailed to clients (many of them, attorneys). As in, scan the stamped and signed plan and send as a .pdf.
My gut is that this makes it easier for people to "add and subtract" from the face of the plan. I've had plans of mine "modified" before without my knowledge, and am always reluctant to release anything but a stamped-paper-original to the client.
Mass just added some language to the revised standards of practice regarding digital stamps, but it's very vague.
How do others feel about this? Am I alone? Thanks.
-V
I haven't found a way around sending a digital yet other than a straight-out refusal.
On small legal size I scan and send a signed jpg file.
> My gut is that this makes it easier for people to "add and subtract" from the face of the plan. I've had plans of mine "modified" before without my knowledge, and am always reluctant to release anything but a stamped-paper-original to the client.
Anyone can take your stamped paper original into a FedEx office location and have them scan it. I just think, in a lot of cases, paper is obsolete. I do a lot of ALTA surveys and it's probably less than 20% of the time that I send out any paper copies.
I get similar requests frequently. I just say "No." I don't have a large format scanner, nor do I even have a large copier for plans. I send folks to staples, just like we do when we need copies.
As I have frequently explained, in my opinion there is but one original, and I will not stamp multiple copies unless a town submission requires a stamp in a different color.
Dtp
> > My gut is that this makes it easier for people to "add and subtract" from the face of the plan. I've had plans of mine "modified" before without my knowledge, and am always reluctant to release anything but a stamped-paper-original to the client.
>
> Anyone can take your stamped paper original into a FedEx office location and have them scan it. I just think, in a lot of cases, paper is obsolete. I do a lot of ALTA surveys and it's probably less than 20% of the time that I send out any paper copies.
I agree.
I agree as well, I just feel like in doing so, I'm providing them with one less step to go through if they want to mess with the plans.
-V
> I have been receiving more and more requests for digital copies of stamped plans emailed to clients (many of them, attorneys). As in, scan the stamped and signed plan and send as a .pdf.
>
> My gut is that this makes it easier for people to "add and subtract" from the face of the plan. I've had plans of mine "modified" before without my knowledge, and am always reluctant to release anything but a stamped-paper-original to the client.
>
> Mass just added some language to the revised standards of practice regarding digital stamps, but it's very vague.
>
> How do others feel about this? Am I alone? Thanks.
>
> -V
as James Fleming just said it is quite simple for anybody on the planet to make a copy.
It happened to me many times, the most memorable time was in the 90's. Some helpful Engineer copied, modified, and recopied my work with my signature and seal and issued it to a client. He did a great job of it! Artful even.
Of course it was full of errors and my original (copy in my personal files) had no errors, the "train driver" simply did not understand survey documents.
We contacted his client, apologized (without disclosing the fraud) and made sure that the bogus one was destroyed and only the correct one was used. Very embarrassing for everyone involved... I am sure that Train Driver remembers it well too.
VH: Just serve your client, give them what they ask for.
If you do not have that capability in-house send them to a copy shop.
Keep copies of what you issue, and keep those copies Forever!
Just think of it as creating one less step for them to digitally archive the plan and charge them for the convenience 🙂
I agree, but I am beginning to charge for them.
> I have been receiving more and more requests for digital copies of stamped plans emailed to clients (many of them, attorneys). As in, scan the stamped and signed plan and send as a .pdf.
>
> My gut is that this makes it easier for people to "add and subtract" from the face of the plan. I've had plans of mine "modified" before without my knowledge, and am always reluctant to release anything but a stamped-paper-original to the client.
>
> Mass just added some language to the revised standards of practice regarding digital stamps, but it's very vague.
>
> How do others feel about this? Am I alone? Thanks.
>
> -V
No problem. In CAD, lightly screen "COPY" in big block letters at a 45° angle across the plans, then convert it to a digitally secure PDF. It can be hacked, but the effort to do so is significant. Distributing plans to anyone except the client and mandatory government agencies, nope, refer them to the client. He/she's the one that paid you.
We've been through this before, but here's my opinion.
- My signature never leaves my office copied (or scanned) - only an original signing.
- All plats contain the following note right under my seal - "This is not a true, certified copy unless the signature hereon is an original signing"
- I will distribute PDF's, but they are NEVER signed.
- I do not use electronic signature because Virginia recording rules require that the signature be original when presented to the Clerk for recording.
I know there are those that disagree with me - you're entitled to your opinion. These are my rules for my surveys.
I'm inclined to agree with you Dave, but again, this is happening more and more and I'm trying to keep clients happy.
Typically, I'll send out a draft that will have "DRAFT" in large letters across the signature block, and certainly these are never signed/stamped. But in this situation, they are asking for a signed final copy.
-V
Why were you the one apologizing? Repercussions for the engineer?
-V
Most of my clients and the title companies just want a pdf by e-mail. So much faster and easier. This is the electronic age. I asked the title company how they read the large drawings and they said they have big screens.
Electronic signatures are pretty cool. My client can print as many copies as they wish. But if they change even one pixel of the file, the signature is broken and can not be recovered. A notice appears that the signature is invalid. Print the invalid file all you want but my signature no longer appears.
Larry P
I send them out all the time. They get a flattened PDF with a certificate based electronic seal. It's very easy to validate and accepted the world over. That being said there are nuances in the various State Rules. I would write the Board for clarification if the rules aren't clear...
"we" were apologizing to the Client for the confusion.
The Engineer and I both worked for the same firm.
The client was "his" but I provided the Survey portion of the greater project.
> Electronic signatures are pretty cool. My client can print as many copies as they wish. But if they change even one pixel of the file, the signature is broken and can not be recovered. A notice appears that the signature is invalid. Print the invalid file all you want but my signature no longer appears.
>
> Larry P
Larry, how did you implement this? Thanks.
-V
Around here they can get digital copies directly from the Registry of Deeds and those have seals and stamps shown too., so I don't lose much sleep over providing such things. I have yet to hear of anyone using such a copy to pull anything shady.
I dont think its any easier for most people to modify a pdf....it was much easier to draw on a paper copy.
