@jim-frame not to be rude, I think this is bad advice. I think everyone should learn to run three wire in case their digital gear malfunctions and as well certain clients require it. Stadia readings are the most accurate if you take the time to do the math correctly.
@jim-frame not to be rude, I think this is bad advice. I think everyone should learn to run three wire in case their digital gear malfunctions and as well certain clients require it. Stadia readings are the most accurate if you take the time to do the math correctly.
Wow, this has to be some sort of record! End of Thread: 12/5/2014...Resurrected Zombie: 8/19/2023!
‘add the wires’ !! I always wondered what the benefit of 1/100 yard pattern.
I thought it was just to have a pattern that is still discernible at 70-80 yards.
I am woundering exactly how to run a 3 wire. My party chief has explained to to me but he is horrible at teaching . Trying to learn everything I can now make life easyer later.
I wounder if you are now a party chief with an easyer life.?
Do you still think your party chief was a horrible teacher?
Funny how the time passes, I for one have not run a three wire since around 2003. I started out at an old time shop with lots of great optical levels, that battery free tech sure has a better feel to it in some ways but I will take a digital where appropriate any day of the week.
Maybe I was lucky. I had a couple of party chief/company owners that were more than a boss. They were well studied practitioners in the science.
When i ran a serious 3 wire bench level loop 10 miles with dual pattern invar rods and Jena rotating compensator 2nd class II. The loop closed for 13 mm. I was ecstaticly pleased. The boss thought that was suspicious. I put that to the rod men saying what a good job we’d done, and a very fortunate thing happened: an honest report of a disturbed turning point. A quick rerun of a short section and I found that cm.
Do you still manually record hz, hv and ds and calculate your ts data yourself? Why would levelling be different. For the odd point a manual level is good, otherwise use a digital one. They don't cost much and give excellent value for money, let alone peace of mind the readings are stored correctly.
That was a long time ago. I wouldn’t be using that today for sure.
although today in my retirement phase I do shlep a T3 T2 N2 and HP3805 and HP15 HP41 just for the pure enjoyment of the art.
Digitsl is financially beneficial, not more accurate. Digital is faster cheaper, not necessarily better. Digital has many pluses in workflow, but removes the task to black box.
the OP was about 3 wire. And that returns stadia distance so that balanced sights can be maintained and using the three reading in average returns a better reading and error check. Digital, sure. The student of surveying should know the fundamentals.
That was a long time ago. I wouldn’t be using that today for sure.
although today in my retirement phase I do shlep a T3 T2 N2 and HP3805 and HP15 HP41 just for the pure enjoyment of the art.
Digitsl is financially beneficial, not more accurate. Digital is faster cheaper, not necessarily better. Digital has many pluses in workflow, but removes the task to black box.
Didn't say it was more accurate but less chance of a blunder.
I use a Sokkia SDL30 and set my level to first verify before saving the point, never measure and store with one push. I also write the Staff reading and HI on a small book to check progress.
yeah digital in production has pluses in workflow and speed.
Just hate seeing newbie instrument guys working it without understanding more about it.
yeah digital in production has pluses in workflow and speed.
Just hate seeing newbie instrument guys working it without understanding more about it.
That's another discussion of course. But it's with all instruments nowadays. I think more total stations, gnss, scanners,... are sold to non surveyors then to surveyors because of the ease of use.
What's behind it is of no interest to them, just eliminate the cost of those expensive surveyors
We have one dam where the points are set in the ceiling of the outlet tunnel. There are 40 points and the rod is held upside down. So upside down 3 yard rod, 3 wire level, flashlights. We take our time and get very accurate returns. There is a place for this and definitely a place for electronic levels on most other dam level work.
The student of surveying should know the fundamentals.
That is what the old farts were saying when levels went automatic. "These young whipersnappers should learn how to use a dumpy level first, to learn fundamentals".
Digital levels are just clearly the better way to go. From there it is merely a cost benefit analysis to determine whether you level often enough to make them worth the extra cost. And with the cost of labor rising, that equation leans decidedly to making the investment.
I'm A-OK with at least introducing folks to the methods that were used prior to the current industry standard.
The 101/201 fundamentals courses in school covered three-wire levelling, as well as booking angles and distances and calculating points by hand. Students didn't have to do entire projects that way, but ran through the calculations a few times to get a feel for how the instruments are working under the hood to spit out results.
For folks that are on the path to licensure, I'd say that being familiar with the concepts of our predecessors is a must.
If a firm uses a particular method, it's on them to make sure their people are up to speed on the gear that they use. At some point, as folks move up the ladder and start to do more than just basic data collection with their current equipment, they're going to at least have an idea of what was done in the past, if for no other reason than to understand how our work might (or might not) fit in with previous surveyors' work.
But I wouldn't prioritize three-wire training for a new field hire that will be working exclusively with digital levels.
I'm old enough (just) to have started out doing surveys with a steel band.
That's before EDM was common, let alone GNSS.
I've calc'd just one job with eight figure log tables.
I would not want to go back...
the rod is held upside down
Leica digital levels, at least, can be set to read an inverted rod. I'm betting that other brands will do it as well.
Sokkia and Topcon also usable with an inverted rod.