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Point to line inverse in C3D

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Williwaw
(@williwaw)
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The good thing is that I've got the Cogo points down, it was the updating the point group in Toolspace that was throwing me. I still think it's clunky, but at least it's functional.

Can anyone tell me the easiest way to do a point to line inverse? Manual doesn't have anything spelled out on it and Google AI has me using the Inquire Tool under the Analyze tab. I just want to be able to define a line by two points and determine the station and offset of a third point in the context of recovered ROW control. Pretty basic stuff but C3D managed to make it into Chinese opera. Thanks for your patience with me.

Screenshot 2024 12 17 153819

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 17, 2024 5:47 pm
(@wa-id-surveyor)
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We never ever make use of the point group hierarchy in the toolspace, if that's what you're referring to?  The one where you move points group up and down a list....it's terrible and serves zero purpose for us.  We just set it in our template and forget it, no issues.   There are ways to inverse between points in civil3d using specific commands(which we never use, we use the methods below) but there is no way to inverse between a point and a line with a single command that I'm aware of.

We do this all day every day, we're constantly looking at how far the mons(points) are off the line, fence, pavement, setback, etc....  There are a number of ways to do this.  DISTANCE command( I have this hotkeyed to my D key) then select the Node osnap(on the point) and then use the perpendicular PER osnap to the line.  I'm typically concerned with the distance, not so much the bearing.  This will produce a result: Distance = 0.10, Angle in XY Plane = N 88d59'57" W.  That's our common practice.  

You can also draw a line from the point to the line and then obtain the line data with cglist command(which i have shortcut to my 2 key).  This will produce this. Distance: 0.10' Course: N88°59'57"W.  This works best if you need repeatability.  

You can also use the line scenario above and add a label to the line to show the Brg and Dist if you need constant visual feedback on the information.  We use this sparingly, but it does server a good purpose when needed.

If you have an alignment you can simply annotate the point and the specific point on the line using the annotate>add labels>Feature-Alignment feature.  You'll have to have that setup or you'll get the OOTB info which works but is not the best.

 

 
Posted : December 17, 2024 6:05 pm
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Williwaw
(@williwaw)
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@wa-id-surveyor You’re a prince, thank you.

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 17, 2024 8:02 pm
dave-o
(@dave-o)
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When you get a handle on point groups, modifying point and point label styles and include them (the groups) in your template, they're a big timesaver for FtoF work, especially if you have good point numbering system conformance by the field crews.

 
Posted : December 17, 2024 8:29 pm
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
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Posted by: @wa-id-surveyor

We never ever make use of the point group hierarchy

The outfit I was with when I transitioned to C3d made heavy use of point group hierarchies. They had like 10 or 12 point groups that had to be stacked like the tower of babel. It made every drawing feel like a game of Tetris. I don't use them at all in my current setup, and hadn't even thought of them for years until they were mentioned here. Now that they are, I might revisit the idea. But with no more than a couple of group options. 

 
Posted : December 18, 2024 12:13 am

john-putnam
(@john-putnam)
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Using the 'CGlist', or 'CGL' for short, will give you the bearing in actual bearings versus the CAD angle.  CGL defaults to lines or curves so you need to hit the 'P' key to pick points.  The command is also available on the inquiry pull down under 'Line & Arc Info' 

As for point groups, I find the indispensable in my workflow.  First, my system automatically greats a group for point to be used in a DTM.  I have five (5) in my basic template.  They are great if you want to temporarily use a point style or label override to see specific groups of points, say top of rail shots.  I will say I don't us the whole hierarchy thing much.

 
Posted : December 18, 2024 6:28 am
(@blitzkriegbob)
Posts: 408
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Seems like you may have a solution to your question, but I did offer a suggestion in this thread that may be useful.

https://rpls.com/forums/software-cad-mapping/lisps-for-civil-3d-from-carlson/

It looks like the attachments I used may not be there now for some reason, but I can try to find those for you if you'd like.

Regarding hierarchy of point groups, I personally love using them. For what I do, our final product does not show any survey points, other than symbols for things like power poles, fire hydrants, etc. I like seeing a clean drawing (and hate running a PDF only to find blobs where I forgot to freeze a point layer), so I hate seeing a bunch of X markers or circle markers with a point label style. My No Display point group turns off all label styles. If I ever find myself wanting to see pavement shots, I use the hierarchy to move those above No Display and I now seeing markers and label styles using overrides for my pavement points.

You can have it be as simple or as detailed as you'd like. You can have all of your pavement shots together, or separate them out by gravel, concrete, asphalt, etc. You also can do it both ways. Have your asphalt shots in a group, and your asphalt shots are also in a pavement group. That allows you to see them by themselves, or with your other pavement shots that might tie in. You can have storm, sanitary, water, and gas separated out, but also together in a utilities group. For me, it just provides a lot of flexibility. I know this can be accomplished with layers as well, but for me, this has become an easier way for me to view what I want to see at any particular moment with as few clicks as possible. Being able to revert back afterwards is also a breeze. I like having the point groups in my template, and populating them after importing points does not take long.

Being the guy who used to always set things up, I thought everyone did it this way. It's only been in the last few years working where styles and templates were done by others that I have realized that's not true. I have been tasked to make changes to the survey template where I am now, and it will be a struggle. Discussing it with the survey group, they have told me that they are used to just freezing and thawing what they need, and they like seeing all their points and label styles on the screen all the time. It will be baby steps for sure! I'm not saying you have to adopt the hierarchy, but please keep an open mind.

 
Posted : December 18, 2024 7:43 am
Williwaw
(@williwaw)
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In previous incarnations I've used layers to organize points and distinguish groups and it wasn't until I moved to Carlson Survey that I found Point Groups to be a very useful alternative, though with a few shortcoming that I was still working on figuring out, but definitely superior to the layers approach. Now with C3D, the Groups approach has taken on a great deal more flexibility and I'm working out the best work flow to set up into  templates. Being able to stack them into a hierarchy and shift to the top of the stack the No Display, is a step up for me. Guess it's like anything, pros and cons. I'm hoping to get a seat of Carlson where the last few years previous experience can be tapped, but this is government and the wheels turn with the speed of molasses and there are rules for the rules, wrapped in rules and all of it smothered in a thick layer of bureaucracy. 

I'm literally in the basement by myself trying to get all this figured out, so if you've ever watched the movie 'Office Space', you can perhaps relate. I do have a stapler and I guard it zealously.

Carry on.

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 18, 2024 9:48 am
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(@davidgstoll)
Posts: 647
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Hi Willy,
You can use Project Explorer "Compare to:"
Dave

PE 1

 

 
Posted : December 19, 2024 1:51 am
Williwaw
(@williwaw)
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@davidgstoll Awesome! Thanks

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 
Posted : December 19, 2024 9:36 am