Has anyone figured out how to do Least even squared adjustment in civil 3d without having to use survey network? I am able to do it in Carlson and they make it easy to do so but switching between programs when its not necessary would be nice.?ÿ
Has anyone figured out how to do Least even squared adjustment in civil 3d without having to use survey network? I am able to do it in Carlson and they make it easy to do so but switching between programs when its not necessary would be nice.?ÿ
I'd have to say it can't be done.?ÿ If you don't have a network you don't have observations.?ÿ Nothing to adjust.
@bobwesterman Thanks. I suppose I will just do what I need in Carlson, Save the DWG and then Reopen in CIVIL3d
Use the survey program to analyze and adjust survey observations.
Use the drafting program to draft.
They're both good programs but are targeting different functions. Use them for their intended function.
My two cents...
I've worked with Civil 3d and its precursors, Land Desktop and Softdesk, since 1997. In that time I've worked in several offices with dozens of users, many more experienced than me. I have yet to meet a single person who has successfully performed a traverse adjustment of any kind using the tools Autodesk provides.?ÿ?ÿ
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I've worked with Civil 3d and its precursors, Land Desktop and Softdesk, since 1997. In that time I've worked in several offices with dozens of users, many more experienced than me. In all that time I have yet to meet a single person who has successfully performed a traverse adjustment of any kind using the tools Autodesk provides.?ÿ?ÿ
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I used to do it all the time, starting withe one of the predecessors DCA.?ÿ Which later became softdesk, than was bought by AutoDesk and turned into Land Desktop, later to be rewritten into Civil3D.?ÿ?ÿ
We used fieldbook files up until about 2015 when we got our first tsc2 with access then switched to TBC for all our processing.
I've closed many a traverse with them.?ÿ
I use least squares in Autodesk Land Desktop all the time for analysis. I don't adjust my traverses.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
I don't adjust my traverses.
Why?
If the error is significant, as the least squares analysis will indicate, then I would go out to observe that measurement again.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
Obviously for a basic traverse and good procedures, the values won't change all that much, but when you say you don't adjust, yet use least squares analysis, do you update station coordinates per the analysis? Or leave them alone?
Personally, I haven't done a compass rule adjustment in years. Closure reports get a cursory look but I go straight to LSA.
@mark-mayer this is what I have heard from pretty much everyone who uses CAD
@rover83?ÿ
Hi, I look over the analysis to see how much the coordinates would be shifted if adjusted. Then I leave them alone.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
I tried Google for that, and did not find anything resembling that comment. I attended formal training when I started, and I still believe it was well worth the time and expense. These days there is You Tube, and many videos there are helpful.
Places that I have see struggling to use software for it's intended use were the types that refuse education, thought software should be intuitively obvious, or were using pirate versions having no access to technical advice.
Some had just one person who had "figured it out" and was teaching others in a completely wrong fashion with disastrous results. Anyway, I find it hard to believe that there isn't anyone that can use least squares analysis in Autodesk products, and I will offer myself as contradictory evidence.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
I'm not at all familiar with least squares or least squares adjustment programs. I work strictly in the field, and we'd use whatever adjustment program is in our data collector, if necessary. You wrote, "If the error is significant, as the least squares analysis will indicate, then I would go out to observe that measurement again." I'm used to using old-fashioned analysis, like seeing if I had a short backsight where a significant error occurred, or if the line of sight was low to the ground and was affected by microclimate. We still check our traverse closure using (N - 2) ?? 180?ø. I'm reading through https://surveyorconnect.com/community/surveying-geomatics/lsq-transit-compass-crandall-adjustments/ to further educate myself. Thanks for posting!
When I purchased Star*Net, my thoughts were on the adjustment aspect.?ÿ At that time, I didn't have control of the equipment or methods of all field crews, so I wanted a better adjustment than compass rule.?ÿ After a couple of months, I learned that the actual adjustments weren't?ÿ as valuable as its ability to quickly isolate errors, correctly combine various types of survey data, and provide a template in which I can describe the fieldwork.?ÿ Photos of field books are great, but having a brief explanation of the what-where-how in one place helps when you revisit a long dormant project.?ÿ I've played around with various adjustment software and have yet to find one that holds a candle to Star*Net.
I like StarNet if I have to combine data from totally different systems, or on the rare occasion I need to de-weight or heavily modify standard errors for a single observation. But if I'm doing the latter it usually means I'm in Hail Mary territory already.
I'm not a big fan of its outlier trapping, just using the arbitrary value of 3 for flagging standardized residuals. TBC computes and uses the Tau criterion, which is more rigorous and minimizes the chance that the operator will toss a good observation. Side-by-side
If my data can go into TBC or StarNET, TBC is way faster for QC, blunder trapping and the adjustment. Viewing and selecting data in the plan view is very easy. Not to mention I can process baselines, pull in NGS data sheets and CORS data, etc. TBC also handles geoids and fixing ortho elevations better.
All that being said, StarNET is still an awesome, powerful program. We have both TBC and StarNET and we wouldn't want to give up either.
After a couple of months, I learned that the actual adjustments weren't?ÿ as valuable as its ability to quickly isolate errors, correctly combine various types of survey data, and provide a template in which I can describe the fieldwork.?ÿ
Very well said. Except that the word "errors" should be replaced with "blunders".?ÿ
If my data can go into TBC or StarNET, TBC is way faster ...
That's a major thing. StarNet accepts data from a wide variety of collection programs. I've not used TBC, but I expect that it is restricted to Trimble format data.?ÿ?ÿ
@mark-mayer I have done a couple of traverses with civil 3d (compass rule adjustment) but have found it is almost easier to do it by hand.
@rover83 TBC is great for blunders and outliers even before you get into the adjustment. Those red flags scare the heck out of some but I see them for what they are just a little flag that sais check me out I might cause you some heartache. Most of them for me are not even dealt with as they are usually a vertical angle from measured rounds to some point so close to the gun it doesn??t make a difference. But When you can go through a 40 acre topo and find a vertical bust in just a few moments from just going through and glancing the software has paid its way for sure. The more I use it the more I love it.?ÿ
I hate to say it but it is most definitely up there with StarNet and I loved that program. But Rtk robot resections mini traverses within a site all on one screen is priceless. And I honestly have been trying to break it on purpose. I have had some crazy looking networks from multiple crews tying to each other from all sorts of ways. I went out today as I was uncomfortable with one side that veered off i to know-mans land from the main traverse and did some ground proofing across the site to my adjustment and it was better than I expected and fell within what TBC said it would. So i called it a day.?ÿ