excel data to create point data

Will C3D allow you to import a text coordinate file without point number? Formatted like N,E,Z,D with the point numbers being automatically assigned?

You could cut out the calculations entirely if you're willing to adopt a slightly different field workflow.

I've been kicking this idea around with some of our other standards people, and tested it out myself and really liked it.

Basically, just have a code for an invert note - I think I have it set at INVN. Then add attributes for size, type, measured to top or bottom, etc., as well as the invert itself. You might already have this set up, but we like to use dropdown lists to keep things as consistent as possible:

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When measuring inverts, just carry the controller around with you (I just use the internal GNSS to make sure I know where I am on site), and when you get to a manhole/structure to measure, use the "cogo point by bearing/distance" routine, tap on the structure point in the map to use it as the reference point, and just zero everything out for B&D. No horizontal offset.

But in the V. Dist. field, input the measure-down distance as a negative number.

Once the point is calculated, use the dropdown lists of the attributes to input size/type/etc.

This will create a calculated point with the structure point as a reference (so you know exactly which structure the crew is measuring inside), with the correct elevation of the invert measurement, plus all the attributes that can be pulled in with a custom import to C3D.

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Yeah, it's slightly more work in the data collector. But all that information would have to be written down in a field book anyways, and this will save a ton of time and potential fat-fingering in the office.

Plus you can have ready-made label styles that pull from the elevation (of the invert) and the attributes (size & type) to automatically create a dynamic label for any point with code INVN as well as hiding the point itself.

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Just thought I'd throw that out there. Not even sure we're going to use it, since we have trouble getting crews to measure up their instruments, let alone input attributes to a point...

@rover83?ÿ ?ÿthat's excellent!?ÿ ?ÿAnd basically, the crew is doing that in the DC already, just not correlating to a point, which I found a bit crazy.?ÿ I will see about setting it up that way

@peter-lothian?ÿ I was thinking of generating the row and just re-using the point number of the manhole.?ÿ At import, I would just tell it to start from 10000 or something and re-number the points.

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just playing with a file like this...

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1100,5000,5000,100,SS600
1100,5001,5000,96.2,SS600 INV N 18"rcp
1100,4999,5000,92.1,SS600 INV S 16"rcp
1100,5000,5001,91.7,SS600 INV E 18"rcp
1100,5000,4999,90.2,SS600 INV W 12"rcp
1101,5500,5100,101,SS601
1101,5499,5100,90.1,SS601 INV S 18"rcp?ÿ

@Rover83

interesting approach,

if I understand well you do not connect the pipes between the manholes, any ideas about that?

Probably via the CAD toolbar, can you attach attributes to the lines also.

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We process our F2F with Local Belgian software that has far more options for F2F, si I did not delve into the details of coding with attributes, but I like the idea of collecting manhole data on the TSC7 in Trimble Access.

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@christ-lambrecht?ÿ ?ÿSo you use F2F to generate the pipe connections as well?

@christ-lambrecht?ÿ

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Thats a good point, we need directions at the very least. Should be as simple as north, northeast, east, etc. Many times we have some sort of GIS or planset information that we underlay in order to check fieldwork and will cross-check sizes and elevations.

I would like F2F line codes in there too, though. Our crews usually just do a sketch, but there's no reason they shouldn't be able to just sketch it on the map with our fancy new large-screen controllers.

I'd be interested in hearing more about the local software you use. Does it create pipe networks and flow directions?

@andy-j?ÿ

sorry, not yet.

We could code it afterwards and are able to add pipe size and material as text with each pipe, that would put the text at the midpoint of each line, oriented with the bearing of the line.

Not sure how wel this would go in the field, it may slow down the fieldwork and thatƒ??s not the intention.

@rover83 it doesnƒ??t always happen but what i would do and i liked it is I would go pull and dip all my man holes and use one of those fancy paint pens and mark the inverts on are as close to where the pipes entered. We have to measure down anyway. Then when i or the other folks were locating the man hole or drop inlets they could take a shot and simply add the dip measurement to the rod height. Access makes it is as for those with limited math skills had a rod height of say 6.0 could hit the calculator function in rod height field and add the dip enter plus and accept and now no after work is needed. ?ÿI even on green young crews would have them take a picture on at least one of the shots with dc. And i had a picture from phone etc. when dipping them. It worked well as we could send folks on rainy day to do the dips and those paint marks held up very well. As long as no down pour. I did something in excel on e where the inv was added to extra description and made a macro to calc a new point a d elevation. But the above work flow seems more productive. Me and a very experienced ?ÿchief kinda came up with the idea on a hot day and we didnƒ??t want to start the new job with only a couple hours left so we drove around saw the site and said we need to do something. I said lets dip al. The man holes and get it over with. He said ok. We can write a point number down and just have to remember to change it so it matches our sketch. I said ok and we got out there and said why donƒ??t we just write the dip down and mark a x where it needs to be shot. So we ran to Home Depot and bought a paint pen. So one man hole might have 4 i vert shots and center of manhole so in office side it gets crowded as you are aware. But all info is there for weeks easily.

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this allows for checking also where pipes go so we used paint to show and now automatically we could code for f2f but that company thought f2f was silly. Cad guy wanted job security lol. But u could easily do that. The white paint pen was best and upside down paint as we checked directions before topo started we had less issues and return to job site trying to figure out why sketch didnƒ??t work. But made it faster on back end. As everything was done. Just walkup shoot code adjust rod height and move on. No sketch needed. Picture caught a couple blunders. As I could read the inv and where someone forgot to change rod height. Once they get use to it it smooths out. Had one crew doing dips while another was traversing and then both topoing once allthat

was done?ÿ

Posted by: @olemanriver

Access makes it is as for those with limited math skills had a rod height of say 6.0 could hit the calculator function in rod height field and add the dip enter plus and accept and now no after work is needed.

No need to worry about the calculator, when you're in measure points just tap Options at the bottom, scroll down and check the "Vertical Offset" box, and then when you go back to the measure screen you can plug in the dip measurement here:

@rover83 nice. ?ÿ That I mentioned above as you know can be managed various ways. And allows some flexibility with strengths and weaknesses of crews. The best it ever went was had the as built drawings from the city gis and the paint pen allowed us to also pit size as well so 18ƒ? RCP 4.26 for depth. I did mark alignment marks like 3 lines on rim and lid and 2 and 1 around the lid and rim so if someone came behind us and lid was not in same spot we would know it. Fyi. It happened and does happen. The pain was kinda like marks for utility just a areow point to where it went to. The young folks that want to be fast a see who gets the most shots in a day or whatever likes it as they donƒ??t lose a lot of momentum. The old folks like me like riding the truck up to a spot dipping it and then back sitting sipping sweet tea lol. I will have to try that offset function. Does it keep both or just create the offset elevation. Thats neat. Would be awesome for lids that are not level for sure to take one shot and get both elevations.

Andy-

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Look into User Defined Properties for points. Here is a link to an older tutorial.

https://cadapult-software.com/using-points-and-user-defined-properties-to-manage-measure-downs/

Here is something similar as well, which might help get you started.?ÿ

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I think I did this for a project a couple of years ago, but I do not remember the details.

You all have more faith than I do in this type of procedure.?ÿ?ÿ

I know I'm old school, but I've never seen a problem, (when done right), with fieldbook sketches or writing on 11x17 plots, showing connecting structures, inverts measure downs, pipe material and sizes.?ÿ?ÿ

I'm impressed, but not

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@jph yes field book sketches work no doubt it has been done for many years. ?ÿI did it for years. Before I joined the USMC 2000. We had a sdr33 and was doing f2f back then. No robot just total station and rodman aka the crew chief. We had extra rodman back then as well. Now we on some jobs would do something similar as i stated not exactly but on some structures to draw the lipes from the field codes. Sketches are nice and helps a cad tech draw them. But if i can connect them up by a code and at correct elevation why not. No sketches needed no cad tech to look at sketches the rod becomes the pencil or crayon lol. The code is just telling it what color crayon and line type etc.?ÿ

I was astonished and amazed when I came back into private sector almost 3 years now and seeing cad techs and crew chiefs telling each other how to connect the dots . I could not believe that f2f was not being used at all. Blew me away. Now I will admit you can get f2f to be crazy burdensome on a field crew. I mean you can type a small novel and make the f2f do some amazing things. I have always tried when i set things up meep a balance of saving time in office and field. I do like every point line polygon to come in on right layers line types and if used in surface. Of course i am just now learning civil3d but terramodel i had codes for break lines who better to place them than the person who sees them in the field. Now this takes a little learning but can be useful. I am sure tbc or civil3d can probably do all that. I had choice of sharp hard soft and dead breakline types in Terramodel. So things like buildings when i generated contouring it didnƒ??t do so through the building. ?ÿThis was all from field work. The crew only had to bld st to start the line etc.?ÿ

I agree with Olemanriver that F2F can get a bit burdensome at a certain point. Is there a shortage of drafters and excess of field crew that makes it necessary to have the 2 or 3 person field crew spend the extra time entering the info into the data collector in the field in the elements rather than the single drafter reducing the notes in a nice cozy office? I know that my sketches arenƒ??t anything to write home about, but adding another task to my list to make the drafters life easier while I play frogger in the road to perform my dips is not high on my priorities. All that being said, I perform the calculations, field work, and drafting, and I have tried both F2F and non-F2F. For me the best method is just putting my notes into my point description, along with quick and dirty sketches of dips, and worrying about it later while drafting. Gives me the opportunity to put my eyes on everything going on with the Survey and I catch more mistakes I made in the field this way.

@tim-libs Yeah their is a line that to many codes vs getting data in is unbalanced. But a drafter vs field crew vs survey coordinator manager have different roles. I want my drafter drafting what I mean is not connecting dots but labeling checking and making the deliverable purdy. And sound. Yes he or she can draw lines no doubt. But if I can eliminate most by a KISS keep it simple stupid approach and my crews can look at the rod as a tracing pencil and they are on site and can see how it looks who better to draw it. ?ÿNow when we had a crew chief that ran a crew with a rod and not a rod and data collector he or she could easily see watch and know where he was going several shots ahead. With a robot and having a rod and data collector all on it plus watching bubble and typing changes things a little. I will admit I could yell out codes to my i man and move much quicker with the rod only back in the day than I can with everything on my pole. But I have adapted and just take a pause and look around etc. ?ÿWhen I ran a crew from the rod and had i man at the gun it was a different game. I man coded what i stated. I guess if you ran a robot and had a i man that could walk with you and run dc that would be similar. ?ÿBut now days when i am mapping in the field i am usually solo. ?ÿI went and did a job Friday like that. Just me r12i and mother nature. But I will be doing everything from qa/qc to drafting to surface and getting it into a position for LS to stamp. ?ÿIf I ever get back to the office lol. I am in a situation where we as a larger multi state firm is a start up in another state. So i have everything from new crew chiefs to creating a code list etc.?ÿ

maybe some seasoned folks ?ÿan elaborate i have done this before ?ÿI will take the code list from sister company in different states and also have my new crew chiefs tell me what they are use to for codes and place it all in a spreadsheet and try and make a happy medium of things to develop the code list ?ÿfrom scratch ?ÿso everyone has input and its just not me and my brain . Once that is done I should have a fairly good base of codes to start with. I do like what @rover said about using the cad function in tsc7 ?ÿbut we might have some hand me down tsc3 etc and such ?ÿso codes will still be important on jobs.?ÿ

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Posted by: @rover83

I'd be interested in hearing more about the local software you use. Does it create pipe networks and flow directions?

It doesn't, but it has a lot of nice options?ÿ for construction of new non-observable points. Cogo in your linework.?ÿ

I'll simply add a the code info file here.

My favourits are the offset lines through measured points, way faster then keying in the HO & VO, and you can specify another feature code for the offsetlne. And the way you measure buildings add 2 RightTurns in begin and endpoint and add a housenr. and descriptive text in 1 code.

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I've been looking at attributes in TBC and see you can add them to points but also to lines. I do have to read some more about smart labels I guess to see how to add the calculated inverts at the manholes with the data available as attributes.

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We have been working with fieldsketches for 30 yrs, it sure works but with the bigger screen and TSC7 power in the field possibilities change and there's no doubt that how sooner in the project you digitize your data the less data you loose.

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Posted by: @tim-libs

I agree with Olemanriver that F2F can get a bit burdensome at a certain point. Is there a shortage of drafters and excess of field crew that makes it necessary to have the 2 or 3 person field crew spend the extra time entering the info into the data collector in the field in the elements rather than the single drafter reducing the notes in a nice cozy office? I know that my sketches arenƒ??t anything to write home about, but adding another task to my list to make the drafters life easier while I play frogger in the road to perform my dips is not high on my priorities. All that being said, I perform the calculations, field work, and drafting, and I have tried both F2F and non-F2F. For me the best method is just putting my notes into my point description, along with quick and dirty sketches of dips, and worrying about it later while drafting. Gives me the opportunity to put my eyes on everything going on with the Survey and I catch more mistakes I made in the field this way.

That's fine if you're the one doing both the fieldwork and the drafting.?ÿ When you're in the office trying to do the work from sloppy incomplete codes and even sloppier field notes, with few to no sketches it's a whole different story.

@bobwesterman so true. When i get to go to meetings and the. Am able to go walk around with my crew and see exactly whatƒ??s going on it makes a world of difference. I usually am able to tell my crew chief hey. Donƒ??t worry about this or that. Just get me this as now i see what it really is and can save him some time and allow him to get just what i need. ?ÿBut only those cases because if i canƒ??t see it then they have to be my eyes and do a little more. It would go a long long way for everybody if a crew chief had nothing but points on a screen and was told to connect the dots. Nothing fancy it would make him or her better and have a better understanding that the cad tech which a lot of them have never even been in the field and they are good at what they do but they are only as good as what they are given or interpret from the field. Especially areas like where shots are close together and on a screen they are all on top of one another. ?ÿ

i helped a friend out for a couple days when the company i was with was out if work and it was to wet to cut hay. I went out and mapped some areas for a boundary garden gravel drives barns sheds ?ÿetc. rural boundary being divided for family from great grandma. When i got done with all the field work he plotted out several copies of my points. He is solo so no codes. Gave me a few pencils and i sat at the kitchen table connecting dots so he could follow my work. He uses traverse pc. But it reminded me of many years ago doing the same thing so a new cad guy could do his job better. It reminded me of how and why I locate the way i do and why it is important to make sure someone else can follow me. Because it can get touchy at times. Would not hurt the cad folks to walk a site either makes both sides understand each other and learn to compromise a bit and learn from one another. I think @rover should do just that and make sure in areas where it gets crowded he blows them up take a rainy day and crew chiefs that donƒ??t want to use line-work codes give them color pencils make a legend and say draw . Might open the eyes of those crew chiefs a bit. I take a lot of pictures now days from control point and back towards control points which a few cad guys love as they get to see it a little better. And even catch things that are missed. I wanted to implement the 360 panaramo photo from thr Trimble vx we had. No points just evry set up let the gun do the 360 photo . ?ÿGood field coding is very valuable. And we have all been guilty of fussing about the cad guy. Now i am re learning cad lol so I imagine my ears will be burning. But my role allows me to do site visits and adjust the game plan as i need to which is very nice. And i get to share my experience with new chiefs and learn from them as well. All is good.?ÿ