I can't see a single reason why I would care that some liscense holders are illegal aliens. As long as they meet the requirements, pass the test, and know what the heck they are doing, what's the difference to our profession? It's not like we're going to suddenly be swamped by thousands of new RLS/PLS. Look at the ratio of surveyors to citizens, and even assuming that somehow they have enough base education as a group to get the same ratio, and apply it to the size of the illegal immigrant population. I'm not worried.
The way I see it:
If they already have the educational qualifications, there is no reason for them to enter the country illegally. I have multiple employees working for me who came to the U.S. legally after completing their surveying and/or geodesy studies in their home country.
If they are here illegally the only way they could obtain the necessary experience to sit for the exam would be if members of our own profession hired them. Under federal law, it is illegal for any employer to hire, recruit or refer for a fee any alien not authorized to work in the United States. Certainly esteemed professionals of a quasi legal nature wouldn't break the law; therefore they would never qualify to sit for the exam.
Like 50% of the legislation passed at the state level and 80% of the legislation passed at the federal level it's grandstanding for votes and image rather than doing the job they were elected to do and ruling as our representatives.
Plus, as an anti-federalist who believes strongly in subsidiarity, any attempt by a state to assert or reassert authority rather then continue the trend of abdicating local authority to the federal government is fine by me.
Will the tests be available in all languages, or will being able to read and write English be a qualifying criteria?
Very well said, James Fleming.
>
> I would be wiling to wager that that the laws that govern the practice of electrical engineering are not nearly as variable.
Until you get down to the quantum. Then the laws can get extremely variable.
> Certainly esteemed professionals of a quasi legal nature wouldn't break the law; therefore they would never qualify to sit for the exam.
I gather you've never practiced in California, where a significant number of licensees choose to ignore the statutory requirements pertaining to filing Records of Survey. In other words, the quoted statement contains a non sequitur.
To my fellow Californians, this sanctuary state thing has got to stop. I understand the humanitarian premise, and the employer blame premise, but the underlying fact is that 25% of our state budget supports 10% of our population. No matter which way you look at it, that's not fair to the others that are busting their butts off and paying their fair share.
Please see study:
http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-california-taxpayers
There was a 4 year longitudinal study done by this same group, so there legit.
I'm sorry I had to take this approach, but informing others is a obligation for me.
As far as the licensing part of it, I can definitely see Jim's point of view, if 4 Professionals are going to sign off stating this person is competent to be a licensed surveyor and met all other requirements then it is what it is. From a legal standpoint it is wrong, but the employer did give this person experience even though a background check was not completed. Very convoluted, but in the end this creates another incentive for people not to go through the correct legal process when trying to work here (albeit work visas, or naturalization).
My 2 cents
Residency
"...You need experience in the State in question..."
Please educate yourself!
California Professional Land Surveyors’ Act
8748. Licensure by comity or reciprocity
The board, upon application therefor, and the payment of the fee fixed by this chapter, may issue a land surveyor’s license, without written examination, to any person who holds a valid land surveyor’s license issued to him or her by any state or country when the applicant’s qualifications meet the requirements of this chapter and rules established by the board.
How often
How often does the BOR issue licenses based on Comity? MA has the same rule on the books and I know the Board is very reluctant to grant such a license. They will not do it blind; a registrant has to prove that they qualify for the license.
If California is different, perhaps I will send in my paperwork just to say I was licensed in 2 states.
I do not remember how to do the PLSS surveying. I do not see this as being a problem based on the tones of many of the threads here complaining about other surveyors who apparently lack that knowledge. See you in sunny CA...
"I'm sorry I had to take this approach, but informing others is a obligation for me."
Me too!
And I would suggest that others take some time to inform themselves about the organization that published that "study".
🙂
Don
The folks that immigrate and naturalize legally are folks who really get angry about illegal immigration.
I don't blame them.
Following the rules/laws just seems like a waste of time (from the perspective of an potential immigrant). So the same logic applies to the rest of the laws. Why should we expect anybody to respect any laws (federal, state, or local) if the laws governing immigration aren't enforced.
At this point it just seems like a waste of money for the Feds to pretend they even care about illegal immigration.
I digress, is it :beer::30 yet?
> Me too!
> And I would suggest that others take some time to inform themselves about the organization that published that "study".
> 🙂
> Don
Numbers talk, I'd love to see some numbers rebutting the info FAIR provided (would actually be refreshing to know it's not that high). FAIR's sources are government provided data. I do see your pov on the organizations affiliations, but no one else has conjured all the data into one report.
On a better topic, going to see the Eagles tonight :beer: 😀
How often
> How often does the BOR issue licenses based on Comity?
I don't know the rules back east, but I've acquired two states by comity with no issues whatsoever. I had been in OK all of 2 months when I was accepted to write their state exam.
Don - unrelated
Funny cartoon, I'm printing that one out.
BTW your Avatar is kind of creepy...you don't hang out on the Nickelodeon website do you? JK that had to be said. Happy Friday.
I wouldn't say this is political, I would say it is a very serious threat to our profession and other professions. Allowing things like this to happen to legal citizens is a very serious breach of our civil rights and those responsible literally belong in jail.
> The folks that immigrate and naturalize legally are folks who really get angry about illegal immigration.
>
> I don't blame them.
>
> Following the rules/laws just seems like a waste of time (from the perspective of an potential immigrant). So the same logic applies to the rest of the laws. Why should we expect anybody to respect any laws (federal, state, or local) if the laws governing immigration aren't enforced.
>
> At this point it just seems like a waste of money for the Feds to pretend they even care about illegal immigration.
>
> I digress, is it :beer::30 yet?
:good:
It's 5-o'clock somewhere! (Over the ocean right now)
:beer:
There is a HUGE difference between a legal immigrant and a illegal alien. There are some who fail to see the difference If they want to be educated they should discuss the issue with a person who jumped thru all the hoops to enter this country legally.
Apparently the CA state board does not care about the applicants immigration status only that the experience is under a licensed individual and in CA. So in that light they are in direct conflict with Federal work rules. That might be the fine print in the political posturing of this bill. But to me, if a State board accepts USA work experience of a applicant that is not legally allowed to work in the USA they are condoning criminal activity.
For those who want to know, I have employed a Irish/Mexican, a Iranian, a english only speaking Mexican, and a chinese. My wife is a LEGAL immigrant that got her citizenship in 2 years of arriving here. All of which called themselves Americans without any hyphens.
"Oh my Lord the sky is falling!"
:good:
Don - unrelated
> ..... It is kinda odd, but I'm proud of her drawings...
Nothing odd about a proud parent; she is a very good artist!
Everyone was young once; nothing wrong with capturing that in a drawing...
Just look at how old Bart Simpson is!
I hope everyone has a GREAT Friday! I know I am...
Dougie
Undocumented immigrants are facts on the ground numbering in the millions, encouraged by business interests seeking low-cost labor. Recognizing opportunity, they came - and continue to come - to this great land at considerable personal risk in an effort to improve their lives.
The absence of a rational immigration policy isn't going to stop them. While Congress dithers, unable to move beyond extreme partisan posturing, these folks keep coming, most of them working hard, paying taxes, and focusing on the goal that brought them here: making a better life for themselves and their families.
A few of them - some tiny number - might, against enormous odds, actually become licensed land surveyors in their adopted country. The impact this will have on the profession will be negligible.
