Trimble R10 vs Triumph LS

HD GNSS will make the difference, with proper procedure. To echo the Mr. Schrock, a straight up head to head with the same satellites and same canopy would reveal the better system.

R10 HD GNSS Explained: [MEDIA=youtube]UVz9B0iPfCM[/MEDIA]
Using the R10 in Tree Canopy: [MEDIA=youtube]AxppH7yGQhg[/MEDIA]

I started using the R10 over two years ago; it was a quantum leap forward. Going with Fixed/Float just doesn't make sense to me anymore - even with faster initialization through radio transmit rate.

That's my opinion, and experience.

There should be an equipment manufacturers olympics.:-D

When I started using the R10 at first was blown away but now I be been using it for a year I think it does very well. Basically if you are in a spot with the R8 and you get at least 6 satillites in view the R10 will lock them and initiallize. But your not going to go somewhere where your old unit sees 3 satillites. The biggest difference is how quick it goes from float to fixed. It's quick. About a fifth the time as the R8. When I get out of the truck it's fixed before I even close the door.
Hope that helps in some way.

Bill68, post: 344028, member: 10680 wrote: I prefer the controller separate from the antenna, but ultimately it must work fairly well under tree canopy.

I think that if you would try a receiver/controller combined into one unit, you would change your mind as do most users do who try it. The biggest advantages that I find of everything being combined into one unit are:

• It is very compact and can be carried through the woods much easier without having to worry about having a data collector hanging off the pole getting tangled up with brush.

• The built in compass allows for the quick and efficient stake out of points. Forward/back and left/right offset readings relative to the face of the display show precisely where the stake out point is located. I find this much more efficient when staking points as compared to using north/south and east/west offsets. I'm not sure if the R10 has this ability or not. If it does the data collector would have to be aligned correctly to the rotation of the receiver.

• The head height vertical display allows the user to operate the TRIUMPH-LS while standing in an upright position and looking forward. The user does not need to bend their neck to look down to view the display as is traditionally done with a system having a data collector attached to a rover pole. The system can be used for long periods of time without causing neck soreness that I have experienced in the past from bending my head downward to view a data collector.

Javad's automated RTK Verification and Validation processes work great under tree canopy. I have never used an R10 so I can't comment on it. With Javad's RTK Verification and Validation, when a point is collected, the Verification process resets the RTK engines multiple times as soon as they have collected one fixed epoch at the beginning of the observation. The fixed epochs are placed into groups. Each group contains all the epochs located within a specified radius (the default is 5 cm). When a group has reached a high enough confidence level by continuing to collect epochs with new initializations, the process will accept this group and then continue to collect fixed epochs until the specified number of epochs have been collected. Epochs that fall too far away from the current averaged position are filtered and discarded. If too many become discarded the entire process restarts. The Validation phase at the end resets the engines one last time and collects 10 additional epochs to confirm that another initialization matches the logged epochs.

I would be more than happy to do a side by side comparison if anyone has an R10 around Louisville. I'm curious to see how they stack up against each other.

I have used both and would pick the R10. The R10 is a much better receiver.

Call up your local dealer for both and schedule a demo.

Thank you everyone for your input on this. I'm glad to hear from some R10 users who seem to be outnumbered on this site. It would be very interesting to see a scientific comparison between the two receivers in a variety of environments, as some have suggested. I was also wondering if anyone could comment on the durability of these receivers. I know Trimble has made some high quality hardware, so I don't worry about them, but I don't know about the quality of the Javad equipment. If I'm going to invest such a large amount of money on this equipment, I really need it to last. Thanks.

pencerules, post: 344133, member: 709 wrote: I have used both and would pick the R10. The R10 is a much better receiver.

Call up your local dealer for both and schedule a demo.

Many changes and improvements have been implemented since the LS was first shipped out for beta testing. I know that I personally have made well over 200 suggestions for software improvements that have already been implemented since it was first released. I would encourage a demo of both systems!

Bill68, post: 344138, member: 10680 wrote: I was also wondering if anyone could comment on the durability of these receivers.

John Evers can attest to the durability of Javad equipment.

Bill68, post: 344138, member: 10680 wrote: It would be very interesting to see a scientific comparison between the two receivers in a variety of environments

I agree. I'd also like to see a side-by-side comparison of pricing. I know that the latter had a powerful influence upon my decision to purchase, as did the business practices of the firms involved.

And for those who might be wondering: I have no financial interest in Javad, except for the fact that I wrote them a big check. (Of course, "big" in this context is relative.) Other than that, I'm just a user of the gear. Neither do I have a financial interest in Trimble, though I have a boatload of their receivers and a significant investment in their software.

I have other brand recievers as well and I like them really well the service from the dealer is great. Someone had mentioned a sub-forum for these threads. I second that, I have enjoyed this thread and learned a dab or two from every thread I've ever read on here.

I have thought about a good test ground. A nice little trail, through the woods, with steel C channels, that are horizontal, and have legs set in concrete. About 5-6 foot off the ground. And, Leica quick disconnect posts on them. Maybe 6 per test sight. Shoot them with total stations. Many shots. Really rigorously survey things. Any manufacturer who likes can check it. Have them set under a nice pine forest. And set them only 15' apart, with many differing environments.

Also, one at each end, out in the open. No multipath. Everybody can localize on this Once at the beginning, once at the end.
And can double check if they like.
Then, you "run the gauntlet" Occupy each post for 10 mins, and move to to the next.
Then, you do it again, occupying them each for 5 mins.
Then, again, occupying them each for 2. mins.
And, finally, for 1 min Each.
With 5 stations, with 6 posts each, which are 1 foot apart.
At the end of the day, we should have a pretty good idea of who gets it right, and who does is fastest.

I'd like to see a proving ground, at the 4h center in Little Rock.

Nate

matt8200, post: 344108, member: 6878 wrote: I think that if you would try a receiver/controller combined into one unit, you would change your mind as do most users do who try it. The biggest advantages that I find of everything being combined into one unit are:

• The head height vertical display allows the user to operate the TRIUMPH-LS while standing in an upright position and looking forward. The user does not need to bend their neck to look down to view the display as is traditionally done with a system having a data collector attached to a rover pole. The system can be used for long periods of time without causing neck soreness that I have experienced in the past from bending my head downward to view a data collector.

Just curious as to how you would deal with shots like this if you are using a receiver and controller all combined into one ? How would you reach the controller keys to operate it and store the shot ?

or a shot like this ?

There are a couple of ways.

With a smartphone, you can connect to the receiver and control it from the phone. It's not using any software on the phone, it just mirrors the screen on the LS. It uses the same technology as the Remote Assistance feature that the support team uses to view, and share control of customers' LS units for tech support. Except this doesn't require internet connectivity. It's a local server network over WiFi between the phone (or tablet) and the LS.

The second option is to use the delay timer on the LS. Lean the pole, press Start, stand it up and wait for the delay timer to wind down (a few seconds is all that is necessary). There is an LED flashlight on the bottom of the LS that can be set to flash when the receiver starts and when it finishes. That was a great idea that was inspired by Steve, a surveyor friend of mine in Arkansas.

Furthermore. After using a receiver at eye level for a couple of years on a pole that collapses to less than 2' total, I don't care to ever use a 2 meter pole ever again. How do you navigate through brush with all of that? How do you fit it in your vehicle?

[MEDIA=youtube]G5wf4RAZOyI[/MEDIA]

You know who the WINNER of this competition would be? It would be the SURVEYORS.
And, it would help the folks who sell RTK GPS gear to focus, and get it right.
In fact, it could be BOTH or ALL participating vendors. I might see that for MY STYLE of surveying, the R10 is better. OR, that it is the Sokkia Bullet!
Or the Javad T1M. Etc.
I'll buy the donuts!
🙂

N

Here is a link to the Sokkia Bullet article, in GPS world Granted, it is not real strong in radio, 900 feet! But, look at that small size!

Just look at that small size!!

Shawn Billings, post: 344225, member: 6521 wrote: Furthermore. After using a receiver at eye level for a couple of years on a pole that collapses to less than 2' total, I don't care to ever use a 2 meter pole ever again. How do you navigate through brush with all of that? How do you fit it in your vehicle?

[MEDIA=youtube]G5wf4RAZOyI[/MEDIA]

Nice video Shawn, and thanks for clearing that up, would love to try use one of these units

Now if they could get a really small price to go with the small size I'd buy two or three!

Thanks for the kind words, PDOP. Send me a PM and I can put you in touch with people who can make that happen.