L5 and Galileo

Lee D, post: 431248, member: 7971 wrote: Are any of you actively using L5 and / or Galileo in your day to day RTK work? If so, are you seeing a noticeable difference?

Great question, from all the datasheets I have read it is still unclear which recievers "support" L5 and Galileo signals, and which ones actually integrate the data within the signals to enhance positioning.

I have tested it with NYSNET and Topcon Hiper HR for one week.
I noticed:
6 or more SV's with L5
3 Galileo SV's
2 BDS SV's

The displayed RMS values were around 0.01'H and 0.02'V.
With GPS + GLONASS under same conditions this was 0.03'H and 0.04'V

Lee D, post: 431248, member: 7971 wrote: Are any of you actively using L5 and / or Galileo in your day to day RTK work? If so, are you seeing a noticeable difference?

I am running a little test today here at the office with RTX with L5 and Galileo checked "on" and another checked "off" I'll look at the differences. The other day Trimble announced that it is now being used in RTX solutions.

Are there any Network RTK providers supplying corrections for the "new" constellations and signals?
Presumably in China they are using Beidou, but apart from that?

Come to think of it. Is L5 and L2C something that needs to be enabled on the base as well as the rover to use it? I assume so.

squowse, post: 431397, member: 7109 wrote: Are there any Network RTK providers supplying corrections for the "new" constellations and signals?
Presumably in China they are using Beidou, but apart from that?

Come to think of it. Is L5 and L2C something that needs to be enabled on the base as well as the rover to use it? I assume so.

As stated above, Trimble recently announced that they're using the new signals in their RTX solutions.

Yes, they definitely have to be enabled at both the base and rover. I've been using L2C for years, but not L5 or Galileo yet.

gschrock, post: 431482, member: 556 wrote: when I see 24 or more sats in the sky view it just makes my day. 🙂

It also makes my day too!

😎

Lee D, post: 431438, member: 7971 wrote: As stated above, Trimble recently announced that they're using the new signals in their RTX solutions.

Yes, they definitely have to be enabled at both the base and rover. I've been using L2C for years, but not L5 or Galileo yet.

Thanks I was asking about network RTK though. RTX is not a network RTK service.

gschrock, post: 431482, member: 556 wrote: We began outputting RTCM 3.2 MSM (RTCM 10403.2) Multiple Signals Messages last year. We have NTRIP caster mountpoints for GPS+GLN (standard RTCM3.1) and RTCM3.2MSM with GPS+GLN+GAL+BDS. Adding these took some work; there is a lot of code-bias modelling that has to go on, and we need to do this for at least two weeks for each individual station before throwing them into the mix. We have also been able to add all four into our online post-processing, and some users add them into their own post-processing. Enabled base receivers (that have a PPP engine) can use all 4 in real-time PPP (we use this as one of 4 methods to track the velocity of the stations and to check integrity relative to the other stations). PPP post-processing (those online services mentioned) with multiple constellations has been a great option for parts of our state where OPUS does not do so well (and where OPUS-RS will not work at all).

We run a MSM sub-network (in the area of most usage) and are upgrading many more this summer and hope to do full 4-constellation over the state over 2 years. Testing is still longing, but in short the extra birds enabler work in more places, if not significant gains in speed/precision - have had some very promising results so far but need to eliminate other factors (the plural of anecdote does not equal data). Like wise with L5 and E5... but there should be more birds enabled over the next year to be able to really see if there are significant differences (there should be, especially when fuller constellations with L5 and E5 flesh out). I'll post here with results from future tests.

We've been able to add

I'm old enough to remember only struggling with only a handful of one constellation, so when I see 24 or more sats in the sky view it just makes my day. 🙂

Great. So do you run the Washington Network RTK?
What's the need for code bias modelling. I can only imagine what this is. Is it automatically adjusted for by the equipment for GPS and Glonass and when will this be done for Galileo I wonder.
Would this be necessary when running a single base and rover?

squowse, post: 431397, member: 7109 wrote: Are there any Network RTK providers supplying corrections for the "new" constellations and signals?
Presumably in China they are using Beidou, but apart from that?

Come to think of it. Is L5 and L2C something that needs to be enabled on the base as well as the rover to use it? I assume so.

Good news. Trimble VRSnow is supplying corrections using all 5 constellations in Europe at least.

http://www.trimble.com/news/release.aspx?id=061517a

Interestingly, Trimble VRSNow does not show the type of receiver under the info tab when you click on a station on their map. One of the private Trimble VRS providers (Keynet) that I use does show the type of receiver. So it is not possible to tell by their US map if these extra signals are available. But since they only list some european countries in their press release, i can only assume they do not in the US. We used the system Monday through Wednesday this week, but our rover was a R8 GNSS (no Galileo, Beidou, etc), so there was no way to know. I had my R10 in another area this week without VRSNow coverage.

John Hamilton, post: 432703, member: 640 wrote: Interestingly, Trimble VRSNow does not show the type of receiver under the info tab when you click on a station on their map. One of the private Trimble VRS providers (Keynet) that I use does show the type of receiver. So it is not possible to tell by their US map if these extra signals are available. But since they only list some european countries in their press release, i can only assume they do not in the US. We used the system Monday through Wednesday this week, but our rover was a R8 GNSS (no Galileo, Beidou, etc), so there was no way to know. I had my R10 in another area this week without VRSNow coverage.

John,

If you connect to NYSNET try mount point MSM for Multiple Signals Galileo, BDS, L5, L2C.

Lee: Do all of their receivers have that capability? In Keynet there are still some older PennDOT receivers that are GPS only. When working near them they somehow compute a "pseudo-Galileo" correction (so I was told), not sure exactly what that means. We had a LOT of problems recently in an area that is near a GPS only CORS. It was for a highway project, so we were dup'ing (that is the word I use) all of the points at different times of day. The agreement even on wide open points was NOT good at all, both H and V. We setup our own GPS+GLONASS base as an NTrip caster, and everything was fine. We would do a VRS shot, then switch over to our local base, the difference was significant. All of the shots from our base duped (another word with a new meaning) just fine, while the VRS shots not so much. Sometimes they would, sometimes they would not, especially if there were any obstructions at all. We use 0.03 m as a cutoff, if the dup exceeds that, we re-occupy a third time. I can only assume that the problem was due to this made-up correction for Glonass. But I would like to hear from someone who knows (Gavin?). I mentioned all of this to my dealer rep, he didn't really have any explanation.

As far as know , all of the NYSNET network receivers have been updated for GPS + Glonass to provide GNSS solutions. They continue to make changes every month.