Whoooo?ÿ boys and girls!?ÿ I have arrived!?ÿ I am getting used to my new Javad LS and 1M base and am getting things done in a new workflow pattern that is blowing my socks off.?ÿ Like most surveyors, I have always been very meticulous about field procedures, and resisted using GNSS because of the endless horror stories I kept stumbling across with pins being 5' off or more.?ÿ Whenever I needed some points tied to the center of the spinning earth and a solid reference frame, I would subcontract some points from another company.?ÿ My S6 occasionally disproved those control points presumably set with care.
?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿAfter years of research and learning everything I could, I made the leap.?ÿ My Javad rep, Matt Sibole has provided the finest support I could imagine which greatly reduced the learning curve.?ÿ When I call with a question, I could enable "Support" on my unit and he could take control of it from wherever he happened to be, answer my questions and show me what to do by actually doing it with the exception of walking the ground.?ÿ What a great concept.
?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿMost importantly, Matt is a boundary survey like myself and set the parameters high enough that bad shots are nearly impossible.?ÿ The unit ticks audibly when it gets a good fix from at least two computing engines simultaneously and with upsampling, can get 5 shots a second to compare.?ÿ There is a lot of data to look at and give you the warm and fuzzy feeling or not while it is cooking.?ÿ I have tested lots of points and verified with conventional shooting and the Javad system has never let me down.?ÿ In my area, VRS is available for free nearly everywhere which is what most surveyors are using, but with what I know, I believe using the base is getting me better and safer results.?ÿ For those that haven't seen one, the Javad receiver head is its own data collector with a touch screen and buttons.?ÿ There is no unwieldy data collector on the side to get in the way of shots close to a fence or to get hooked on every branch and vine when going through the woods.?ÿ It also comes with a non-magnetic collapsible rod.?ÿ My "Eureka!" moment came on a recent job that was in thick brush that would have taken a day and a half to chop through to find and shoot a dozen pins.?ÿ I carried a metal detector and a shovel in a bag on my back and this lightweight short rod and receiver in one hand and followed rabbit runs and deer trails hunched over because it was way too thick to stand upright.?ÿ In about an hour, I had found and shot every pin.?ÿ They each checked with the record plat by at most a tenth and a half which is probably as good as they were set.?ÿ I set up the receiver in serious bush country and that happy little clicking noise would start that tells me all is well and good with the signals coming in.?ÿ What an awesome way to survey.?ÿ I need to make sure that my billing reflects my new productivity.?ÿ So far, I am the only guy with this product in my area, but I believe it will be on the rise soon.?ÿ Javad has also pledged to support the surveying program at our local college with some equipment as well.?ÿ Without a bricks and mortar shop nearby, I wasn't sure how customer support would be, but it is better and quicker than anything I could have expected.?ÿ I have even helped out some surveying friends getting shots?ÿ that just wouldn't take with their equipment.?ÿ I couldn't be happier.
That sounds great!?ÿ?ÿ You had me until...?ÿ " I need to make sure that my billing reflects my new productivity. "?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ
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PLEASE tell me that you mean it will increase your billing.?ÿ?ÿ
Only surveyors would invest tens of thousands of dollars (and up) on good efficient equipment then GIVE IT AWAY when they should be charging more.?ÿ If I misunderstood your point, I apologize, but lord knows that's the norm in surveying economics. ?ÿ?ÿ ?ÿ
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Andy?ÿ
Well, Tom, it sort of spells the end of an era.
I have fantastic traversing skills. I've run countless miles of tie line. Chopped out many a preliminary tie line.
Set thousands of traverse nails.
And now, a one man crew, armed with a few tools, just rendered most of my childhood skills obsolete.
Yes, it's effective.?ÿ
If it's an important shot. Shoot it 2x or 3x, and average it.
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So, Andy, are you saying that existing clients won't be concerned when you can complete a new project in 4 hours, similar to the ones you have done for them that used to take two days, but want to charge him more because you brought new technology?
Unfortunately, I have never met that client.
I have always sought new technology that helped me deliver what clients needed more efficiently or more accurately than I had been able to historically, but I have failed to be able to turn that into higher fees for an existing client. New clients are another story.
Anyway, I want to welcome Tom to the Javad family. Andy, are you among us?
JA, PLS SoCal
Does a physician charge for professional services by the hour or by the operation?
If it's an important shot ... circle back a couple hours later and "shoot" it again, and average that. Repeating a mistake 3 times in quick succession doesn't prove much, even with a Javad. Consistency is only a virtue if you aren't screwing up.
If it's an important shot ... circle back a couple hours later and "shoot" it again, and average that. Repeating a mistake 3 times in quick succession doesn't prove much, even with a Javad. Consistency is only a virtue if you aren't screwing up.
And the multipath, if significant, will be a different combination so that its effect becomes more apparent.
Well, "one shot" with Javad, means something more than it does with others.
It's the combination of 15 to 30 fixes, and resets, over 3 or more minutes. (This varies, depending on a number of variables).
When done the Javad way, it's not a single French fry. It's a whole double cheeseburger, large fries, and large drink. When done this way, it's a whole lot different that "one shot" the TDS way.
Typically, what is gained with Javad by multiple shots, on the same point, is a few hundredths accuracy. The greatest discrepancy I can recall, between 2 shots, on one point is 0.16'. (Using the boundary settings).
There is a learning curve.
Nate
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Also, "one shot" includes the average of 120 to 700 epochs. Shooting 2x or 3x statisticaly, adds to the precision, mostly.?ÿ
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Absolutely that's what I'm saying.?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ If I can dig a ditch for you with a $10 shovel, but it takes a week, shouldn't I charge more if I go out and buy a 20K backhoe and do it in an afternoon???ÿ?ÿ If all you do is bill for your time and not the investment you make in your equipment, you're shortchanging yourself.?ÿ?ÿ If I can go out and finish a project in an afternoon, the VALUE is even higher because most projects are time sensitive.
What you're saying is old clients always get the rate they started out at??ÿ That seems pretty silly.?ÿ?ÿ People understand that prices go up and expect it when you are delivering your services faster.?ÿ
I've never used a Javad system, but have been following along for years.?ÿ
It the movement of satellites- variation in the visible constellation - that you want. There is nothing Javad can do to hurry that along. All major brands (and most of the minor ones) are doing something to run parallel solutions and calc and recalc fixes.
The charge for digging the ditch should be equal regardless of method employed. If I hire you to dig me a ditch I don't really care if you use a teaspoon, as long as my ditch is dug. If you dig it in 2 hours using a backhoe the hourly rate will be much higher, but my bill will be the same as it would have been with teaspoon guy. Then you can spend the rest of the week digging ditches elsewhere and making more money. But a ditch is a ditch.
It could possibly be said that a boundary survey done with a Javad (or any other modern GNSS receiver) is a better, more accurate survey. And it could easily be on a reproducible grid datum, which may have value to me. Then you might justify higher top line costs. But no way am I paying more for a survey, or anything else, solely because you've got new hot shot technology - if you use it to produce exactly the same result.
So many things to say, but I guess it comes down to individual business models and how you value the service you provide.
One my favorite things with Javad J-Field is the nearly unlimited customization of shot presets. Every aspect of precision thresholds, averaging shots, repeating shots, time on the point, re-initializing, etc. can be user-defined, and all automated. You can have it automatically do any combination of button-pushing that gives you the results you are most comfortable with. It can be set up to do everything short of physically leaving the point and coming back later.
Actually, with a bipod, I do leave the point, go to lunch, and come back, to find a nice cluster of shots! (But you probably meant, taking the LS with you).
I meant that my I would be charging more for what I do with newer and better equipment.?ÿ
Through discussions and hearing the opinions of real gurus, I've been told that 20 minutes causes enough of a constellation change to validate a new shot with different multipath conditions.?ÿ I have not run into a situation that required that sort of redundancy yet.?ÿ After the day is done, the points have been submitted through DPOS (Javad specific post-processing), you can look at all, and I mean all of the data pertinent to a point that you shot.?ÿ If you have a pin that does not lay in where it should on the plat and you start second guessing the validity or accuracy of the shot, you can look at the data, see how long you were on the point, how many epochs were collected, I believe you can even look at each satellite that was used.?ÿ I am skipping over some of the pages of data available, but it is a very detailed set of "fieldbook notes" so to speak, which can give you a warm fuzzy feeling about it or know to go back and shoot it again.
20-30 minutes is a good ballpark for really tough conditions. But with even moderate sky view constellation changes enough now days in 3-4 minutes. Validate being an 2 engines solution redundant repeat within 0.13' in my testing.
It's not how fast you mow, it's how well you mow fast. If I need a ditch it's usually for a purpose.
If I'm like 90% of people, I've waited until I actually need the ditch to start looking for someone who can dig it. I would pay more to the ditch digger that could get me my ditch the soonest.
If I'm like the remaining 10% of people, I've used foresight, realized I will need the ditch ahead of time and lined up someone to dig it in enough time to hit my deadline for needing it. I would hinge my hiring decision more on cost than speed or method in this scenario.
My fees and equipment choices are geared towards going after the 90% crowd and as such my rates go up when I make technology jumps that allow me to deliver faster.
Multi-path geometry can be changed rather quickly in timber/brush areas. Slide the rod up or down and the geometry changes. I've never been able to get two bad locations on a point that matched. Two locations that are different make me reject both locations until I know otherwise, but if they both check with different fixes and different multi-path geometry I start thinking that I have something.
On another note, I either seem to be able to get a shot with the R10 or not. I've not been able to get a bad shot with one yet, all my independent checks on points have shown the R10 locations were good, even in very bad brush, timber areas. If it won't take a shot I will either try at a later time or break out the robot. Sometimes both, I've struggled with the 4400, 4700, 4800, 5700, 5800, but not the R10. The R8 is good also, just not as good as the R10 in timber.
I figure the Javad is similar, but I still have memories of the old days where bad fixes were a daily occurrence.
As I said, their may be reasons that your survey with upgraded equipment has greater value. I mentioned increased accuracy/precision and ties to grid systems. Quicker delivery is another reason. But the simple act of possessing fancy equipment is not reason enough to charge more. You have to actually do something different with it.
