I am a sophomore at Vincennes University (online). Their curriculum is either in person or online. I travel to a VU satellite campus three or four times a semester for lab classes. I have noticed being online that I miss things that I should have learned. This is mitigated because I work for a surveyor. Jessica Hess is the dean and professor. She is willing to work with students to get them through their education. I am the youngest in the online program at 19. There are plenty of people in their 30s and some in their 40s that are working toward their degree in the online program.
It also helps to have a good relationship with your boss. I will ask my boss questions and usually take 2 hours a week in homework help. You can transfer up to half of your credits to Vincennes. This could be a 2 or 3 semesters. I was able to transfer 1 semester from highschool and 1 semester from a Purdue satellite campus.
https://www.vinu.edu/web/guest/major/surveying-technology
https://www.vinu.edu/web/guest/major/surveying-technology-certificate-c-g-
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@eagle1215 Nice!?ÿ I graduated from there in '99 when Bill Clark and Art Haase were still the instructors.?ÿ That program was top notch back then and probably still is.?ÿ Ryan Swingley was in my class, I think he's doing some part time instruction there now.?ÿ We started the first day throwing a steel tape and ended the two year stint by doing a full boundary, topo and designing a subdivision on a chunk of ground.?ÿ It was quite intensive!?ÿ I am jealous that there is a 4 year option now that dives more into the office side of things.?ÿ My class was either the last or next to last to grandfather in to not have to do the 4 year degree requirement for the IN PLS.?ÿ Good luck sir!
Boundary questions are hard to reduce to a multiple choice. As I get farther along in this profession, I realize that the right answer can be ambiguous and the question is usually about the best answer.
If I had my druthers:
- 4 year degree
- Then LSIT.
- Then 4 years of experience.
- National PS exam.
- State specific exams for various certs: Heavy Civil, General Construction, Boundary, whatever.
- Oral examination. This would include a presentation of some sort of a survey done by them under the supervision of and signed by a surveyor sponsoring their licensure.?ÿ
The problems with this are multiple, the most obvious is that oral examinations by their very nature are discriminatory in nature. The question always becomes, "Do I want this person to be associated with my profession?" And the benefit of the doubt is hard to not give to someone that you identify with in whatever way. But, MDs and other professionals work through that...
Also, experience is not all the same. The experience we need is making decisions, and having those decisions reviewed. Again, think of an MD program: a residency includes practice making actual decisions with the safety net of an attending physician.?ÿ
@dmyhill?ÿ
That's pretty much what I would like to see.
I don't have a problem with oral examinations, but I would also tack essays onto the paper exams. That's an easy way to avoid personal bias, and an excellent way to assess a candidate's ability to communicate, logically express professional opinions, and explain those opinions while demonstrating clear knowledge of fundamental concepts.
Of course, there's always going to be challenges along the lines of "Communication skills don't matter! I'm a fantastic surveyor, I just don't do well with essays!" But any profession worth its salt will recognize that an inability to communicate does a disservice to the public as well as to the profession. Written and oral communication skills are part and parcel of our work.
Also, if one cannot explain fundamental concepts clearly in the controlled environment of an exam, how in the world can they mentor effectively? If we're going to rely upon personal mentorship by licensees for part of the experience requirement, they had better be up to the task.
oral examinations by their very nature are discriminatory in nature
MA has this requirement, and while I didn't have an issue with it, (or at least the BOR members who conducted my interview didn't have any issues with me), I've heard from a few other people that it was a major hindrance in their process.
I have read this thread a few times and begun replies a few times.
#1 advice I can give is, live and breathe it until you can pass the exam. Never mind whatever paper qualifications, do you have the knowledge? Do you have the ability to hold a few different mutually exclusive solutions in mind until you have sat in the back of the bus every morning for a week with your eyes closed putting yourself in the shoes of every stakeholder?
If you are ready, you will create your own non local quantum entanglements, and some Board employee will cut the papers inviting you to take the exams.
The fairy godmother department accepts all appeals, and gives the best advice.
The best advice I got, years before I was approved to sit for the exams, was that every Board is lonely in trying to define "what is surveying?" and?ÿ "who should be allowed to practice?" and that every application is a declaration of intent to be licensed, something with which to begin a dialogue with the Board.
Begin that dialogue, make them tell you what you need. Just apply for a license. It will make them ask questions.
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@rover83?ÿ
To be a PLS, you cannot just be a good field surveyor, in my opinion. That isn't how this works. If you cannot work with the public, then you need a PLS between you and the public.
I have told those I mentored over and over and over: If we are all telling you that you are ready, then the hardest step is to fill out the application.?ÿ
It is the hardest step, because it is essentially the first. It places one on the precipice of being rejected. The application starts down a road that might end in failure on a test or possibly even in gaining entrance into your chosen profession.
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Field surveying is a required skill for a PLS, but it is only one of the skills. The greatest field surveyor in the world does not deserve a professional licence without the other required skills.
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The application starts down a road that might end in failure
I've met so many guys who gave up after the first rejection.?ÿ Actually, I met more than a few who gave up even before the rejection, in anticipation of it.
And many times you hear the same excuse, "I didn't want that kind of responsibility...."
The application starts down a road that might end in failure
I've met so many guys who gave up after the first rejection.?ÿ Actually, I met more than a few who gave up even before the rejection, in anticipation of it.
And many times you hear the same excuse, "I didn't want that kind of responsibility...."
My favorite is "I don't want to be a part of the good ol' boys club".
Begin that dialogue, make them tell you what you need. Just apply for a license. It will make them ask questions.
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Easier said than done, not all boards seem to be that approachable, as from my recent experience I'm getting ghosted or told directly that they don't answer questions like what I'm asking.
And that's why I'm a little more than miffed.
In a state with declining numbers and no responses I feel they aren't doing well in the communication process.
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6. Oral examination
is a great idea and as you point out is a part of other professions.?ÿ A three person panel can figure out if an applicant has a clue pretty quickly and if not what areas are lacking.?ÿ
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There are valid critiques of oral examinations and there are ways to address some of those.?ÿ Look at symphonies doing blind auditions (audition is on the other side of a curtain).?ÿ Music has certain logistical advantages to address some of these aspects but similar things could be done for other realms too.?ÿ
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Looking again to other professions, oral boards could come earlier in the process.?ÿ If an applicant lacks understanding or application of some fundamental concepts, they need to learn and apply those earlier in the process (1, 2, or 3 in your list), not try to learn a new way after doing it incorrectly for 4 years of experience.?ÿ Oral boards or exams could also come twice in the process.?ÿ
@aliquot?ÿ
No bones to pick. However, I deal in the facts and what I stated are the facts. By the by, I hold a BSCE, and while what you say about picking up more knowledge is sometimes the case, it often isn't. A college degree still proves little.
The test and experience is supposed to produce that minimum standard of knowledge and abilities.
Two issues. First is the assembling and funding of the subject matter expert panel. The fees would be brutal. Second is the defensibility of the exam. In this day and age antthing other than a psychometrically valid and objective exam is a liability bomb.
Logical but impracticable...
The original intent of the EIT was to test those without college in their background. College grads were not required to take the test. It was never easy to pass, but some still did pass.
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While I saw a large breadth of engineering science on the EIT, I did not see the sort of esoterica you list. Now that the EIT is based major based, I imagine some of what you list is on there. It should be a better test of what you actually studied for 4 years in engineering school.
Adding a degree requirement has not yielded an ounce of respect anywhere. I hear the same whining from degree states that has been voiced for years before.
OPM requirements list a surveying degree or a degree in civil engineering with what amounts to a concentration in surveying. BLM is bound by that.
Our standard was to have passed the EIT or we would not be allowed to sit for the PE four plus years later.?ÿ We did not have major-based PE's back in those days for all engineering designations.?ÿ But, that came along soon after.?ÿ This worked well for me as my work experience splashed over into multiple areas such that, by taking the general test, I was able to solve problems in several different categories.?ÿ It would have been far more difficult to only work in a single designated subject area.
I worked for a few years with a fellow who was still attempting to pass the EIT at an age somewhere around 45.?ÿ He had 25 years of real world experience but minimal college experience.?ÿ The tests are largely prepared by academicians with some input from other PE's.
This is going to be interesting after you finish your classes.
I'd love to see them try to invalidate your test results.
Keep posted on the courses, I'm taking boundary and undecided yet at the moment this fall while prepping for the FS.
Get er done!
