@aliquot A college degree proves nothing other than the ability to sit in classrooms and listen to some drone deliver the same lecture he's delivered for years. The entire licensing system has become a bad joke.
@jph You will be waiting for that evidence for a very long time. Those who are the most vociferous about degree requirements are the professors (understandable as they are arguing a vested interest) and those who have allowed themselves to be fooled into thinking the profs have their act together.
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Frankly, had I been cheated out of professional standing by those who think we need degree requirements, I would leave the sate and leave them to their own cesspool. There are a number of other reasons to leave Colorado than just survey licensure.
@jph As Instapundit has quipped, "embrace the healing power of 'and.'"
I'm in my later years (67 this September) and I've been fairly quiet about the profession as what I see is the contradictions established by the "elite" have simply been ignored by that elite. The profession is aging rapidly and "solutions" increase the problem. The very people the profession needs are prevented from entry.
@oldpacer In most cases is the courts that have refused professional recognition without a degree requirement. In North Carolina that back door way of imposing a degree requirement did not work. The General Assembly determines who is recognized as a professional and who is not. I would say that also is the way it works in other states. The courts have been out of control for years.
@aliquot I'm glad you recognize that some licensed idiots have degrees.
Sonds like you have a bone to puck with an instutute of higher education, but most people who get a degree actually learn something. That something far exceeds what the current tests cover. If you have a better way of ensuriing a minimum?ÿ standard of knoledge and abilities I am all ears.?ÿ
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- @aliquot I would love to see a BS surveying degree that offers more than one semester of Boundary Law.?ÿ?ÿ
@vasurvey3004 I took 2 semesters of boundary law , I and II, at Metro State Survey Degree before the school nixed the whole program
@dougie there is no more mentoring or apprenticeship.
There is no more mentoring or apprenticeship. Buttonpushing only
@holy-cow in the 60s our predecessors enacted laws that changed "registered" to "professional" land surveyors and began raising the bar for licensure. If we truly don't want to add formal education requirements to our great tradition of apprenticeship then I will join the effort to change back to RLS.
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@holy-cow the irony I observe is that the state board routinely "sentances" a few gray hairs to continuing education and I am to believe that experience alone is the proven and only way to learn our profession? This statistic suggests otherwise
I don't believe that a few instances proves a point, nor do I believe that many are suggesting that path as the, only way.
@rover83?ÿ Your reply was exactly what I was thinking in my head... but written with a lot more class.
?ÿ You need to read the?ÿ post by "colorado Land surveyor"?ÿ ?ÿ Seriously, you two should meet up and help each other out!!?ÿ?ÿ
University of Wyoming had 6 semesters last I looked. Of course they are not ABET accreditited.?ÿ
As you and I have discussed, I was in the last admitted class for the full time program.
Western Colorado CC and Colorado Mesa University were given the new mission, but who wants to move to GJ to go to school???
90% of the state's population is on the front range....duh....
As the OP on this wonderfully long thread, I've enjoyed all the posts and replies.?ÿ Many pages ago, another member of this forum brought to my attention that the only college program in Colorado does indeed have online classes and I enrolled this summer.?ÿ (Survey ethics and Stats!! Woo!!)?ÿ From what I understand, the program has 10-20 students enrolled, and the majority are near Denver and 4-hour drive from the college itself.?ÿ I'm grateful I didn't have to pay out of state tuition, at least.?ÿ Now, I'm considering putting the cart before the horse (again) and study for the CFedS since I'm already studying for the rest.
I will agree that some higher learning is a good thing.?ÿ What I believe is that the FS and PS exams need to be more difficult.?ÿ If a college degree is needed, then the exams should encompass the full breadth of surveying coursework, not just bar minimum.?ÿ I believe I had 2 boundary problems on the PS exam.?ÿ I understand questions are semi-random, but I had far more questions about land development and FEMA flood elevations than anything regarding boundary problem solving.?ÿ Perhaps I'm wrong, but I consider boundary and proper retracement the heart and soul of surveying.?ÿ It's also my favorite surveying "genre," so maybe I'm biased. And yes, I know there's a lot more to our professions these days.?ÿ I also believe the exams should have zero multiple choice answers.?ÿ That alone would make it a much harder exam.?ÿ
If the exams truly represent what a degree'd student knows, then why have an standardized exam requirement. A diploma should say it all. The same could be said that if the exams are truly reflecting what's involved with surveying these days, then why have a degree requirement.?ÿ The difficulty of the exam itself would weed out people like me.?ÿ People could then pay for the higher education to pass, or study to their heart's content without paying for a degree that includes 3 credit hours of Medieval Civilizations 101.?ÿ
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If they accept your first degree, as a second bachelor's candidate the fluff and junk classes are optional, because they accepted the prior degree on the Higher Learning Consortium basis. Colorado has the COF too which is a great value so use it for sure.
Yay! You're on your way pushing the cart and the horse, and by all accords you're fully capable and engaged.
Yes, thankfully CMU accepted my first degree so I don't have to take any fluff courses.