You've completed a transit/tape traverse and must determine closure.?ÿ You've lost your trig tables book and only have these 5 pages from a table of logarithms.?ÿ Compute the traverse, using only the log tables, and estimate the precision of the survey.
I'm stumped.?ÿ This is one for @mathteacher?ÿ
You can start with the angular closure, but this is only a small part of the picture, because unless you were taking super pains with the taping the distances aren't as good as the angles.?ÿ
Somehow you have to convert the data you have into components you can add up, with better than the 1:2000 or 1:3000 hoped-for accuracy of a traverse.?ÿ Finding a closure distance seems to need trig functions of the measured angles.?ÿ I can't think of an approach other than remembering the series expansions for sin and cosine and working them out laboriously.?ÿ It would take a long time. Build your own table using the angle difference and half-angle identities starting with the easy angles? Hours.?ÿ Or something with dot products? But that needs coordinates.
Are you expected to start the survey upon arrival at site that's 140 miles from office? I think the 1st day upon arrival is to find lodging & charge up the instruments and do a reconnaissance for next day work.
I'm not prone to dealing with fools.?ÿ I would direct them to shut off the equipment or put it to use somewhere else.?ÿ We will do the job when we are fully prepared to do so and will not be rushed.?ÿ If that's not acceptable, call someone else, but I'm invoicing you for all time invested and will sue your butt if you don't pay upon receiving the invoice.
I'm not joking one bit.
As for exam questions, too many of them are written by people who have never had their income dependent on actually performing survey work in the field.?ÿ But, I understand why.?ÿ Those who are the true surveyors are highly unlikely to volunteer to be severely critiqued by a group of their so-called peers while assembling a battery of exam questions.
Never use a contractor's instrument for any reason whatsoever. Pegging the contractor's level that's been tossed in the bed of his pickup with the shovels and digging bars is meaningless.
@jt1950
I agree for the most part. But I had a project when I was in Oklahoma (Canton Lake Reservoir) that was 120 miles from the office. The nearest motels were back towards the office at least half that.?ÿ We were only needed their one day every couple of weeks, so it wasn't worth renting a house or a trailer or something like that. You do what you have to do.?ÿ
I would direct them to shut off the equipment or put it to use somewhere else.?ÿ We will do the job when we are fully prepared to do so and will not be rushed.?ÿ
You don't have anything to worry about. If you aren't prepared to perform under the gun now and then you aren't going to be hired to do a lot of construction staking.?ÿ ?ÿ
I would think most client would want to pay for a full day's work. start at 8am and pack up at 4pm. It avoids misunderstandings in final billing.
I think I'd try to force that loose reticule error, after the peg test. If it were a well graded three acres on a 25' grid ( 30 lines +/- ),?ÿ set up at the near end and record the first, middle, and last lines. re-setup at the far end of the grid, check those previous shots, and then infill if the results were satisfactory.
If it were a poorly graded out base, with a number of breaklines .. idk.?ÿ
@jt1950
If the client has a site that is 60-70 miles from the nearest motel they have to adjust their expectations. It's not that unusual.
I peg tested a contractors's auto level once. It failed miserably.
Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.
I met one of?ÿ the test question writers once who explained they are educators that know nothing about surveying but presumably know the rules for multiple choice questions.?ÿ It shows in?ÿ this question and many others. Why not at least use educators from surveying programs you ask??ÿ Because I was told it would be a conflict of interest even to participate in content development, let alone write a question.?ÿ So the scenario comes from a discussion and/or survey question feedback from a group of practicing PLS.?ÿ The educators look at the transcript and make a question out of it.?ÿ Obviously, the consensus of the group of PLS used is that under this scenario the party chief should do a test of the offered equipment and get er done. How to actually perform the test would be on the FS rather than PS.
The first answer requires reading into the question that you accepted the offer, and the boss told you it should take 3 hours so just tell them that (not taking into consideration the differing equipment and time needed to test it). This answer catches those with some little knowledge but not much.
Then you have two answers that seem to lead to one of them being correct.?ÿ These might catch those with quite a bit of knowledge, but maybe not enough time in responsible charge.?ÿ They don't have enough education/experience to adapt to differing equipment and procedures in order to get the job done, and are afraid to take initiative in the face of changing circumstances which is a big part of surveying.
The correct answer requires knowledge of differing equipment and procedures to complete the same task.?ÿ It also requires knowing something about calibrating/checking equipment.?ÿ And it takes confidence to take initiative to get the job done, which comes from experience in responsible charge.?ÿ If you look at the content guidelines the underlined are probably listed as areas to be tested on the exam. So the academics managed to get percentage points for 3 content areas into one question; not bad.
But yeah, exams aren't perfect, which is why it's a three legged stool; education, experience, exam.
Look at the multiple varying responses.?ÿ Logic and correct answers on a poor multiple choice question seem always to involve what the test taker is thinking or his professional logic instead of the answer the questioner expects.?ÿ So many things come to mind when reading the question, and I simply cannot separate the wrong things out of my mind.?ÿ Some people are great at multiple choice questions like this, but I simply cannot understand why.?ÿ I was told to try to figure out what they questioner is looking for.
Depending upon the questioner's own knowledge and experience, or even his mood when writing the question, he might be looking for:
1.?ÿ Don't let a contractor rush you as a professional--depends upon mood or experience of questioner
2.?ÿ Use only professionally certified instruments--same comment
3.?ÿ Don't use an instrument you are familiar with--same comment
4.?ÿ Get real; it is just a sand pile; use the instrument after you check it out and use common sense--same comment
5.?ÿ What is pegging an instrument...--same comment
6.?ÿ Economics of PS practice..../???
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Simply bad question.?ÿ We deserve better questions on tests.?ÿ But with my own long-established logic in my own mind, I simply cannot figure out how to answer this, even after reading logic of some who said obvious answer is C.?ÿ Is there an article you who selected C can point me to to cause test taker to understand how you to handle this question.?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
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That is perfectly fine with me. It is a pain in the you know what. I am the boss on my job or you need to give the job to someone else. End of story.
In boondocks USA we attempt to be generalists simply because the alternative providers may not be readily available or willing to tackle small projects at a great distance (unless work is terribly slow). We are not going to always be as efficient as someone doing that type of work only and doing so almost daily.
A few days ago I was contacted by a firm from 1000 miles away to see if I would be interested in performing soil compaction tests while they construct a small electrical substation not far from me. Although I have done this kind of work in the past under my PE license I have not done any in over a decade. I immediately referred them to the only company I know within about 80 miles of their site that does this kind of work at least a few times per month. The caller said he had another firm name to call and told me who that was. I informed him they were located a bit more than 200 miles from the site and would almost definitely come at a far higher price for similar performance due to mileage and lodging expenses. All he knew was they were based in the same state so they must be less expensive than an out of state firm. His site is within forty miles of two other states and roughly 80 miles of a couple other providers located out of state. Sometimes we need to be professionals and guide the client into making wise decisions. If they don't follow our advice at least we don't get the blame for whatever goes wrong.
I 've taken my fair share of exams, including both from NCEES. This question is pretty tame all things considered. The reactions are a riot. It's a PRACTICE question. If it scares you back to the books that's a good thing. If it scares you away until you are ready that's might even be better.
This business will throw you a curve ball from time to time. Deal with it and move on. Even tests developed by dedicated professional surveyors and evaluated psychometricians (the way NCEES exams are) will have a question or two that won't be popular. If you needed a 100 to pass that would be a problem.
I'm already registered. Just commenting on the practice exam question which is a reflection of NCEES testing and the problems caused by multiple choice and poor exam quality that needs to be improved. Should not be a curve ball that you have to deal with. Should be a knowledge test prepared by people who really know the topic about which they are questioning, and the resulting reactions. I've seen a lot of curveballs during my 37 years as PE, PLS, but this one is a needless one.
Apparently it is doable using logarithms and was practiced in the early 1900s.?ÿ From a '50s journal:
Table 4 shows the logarithmic method commonly used in the field for computing survey notes. One advantage is that all work is recorded thus permitting checks on all steps in the calculation. However it will be noted that for each course it is necessary to look up three logarithms and two anti logarithms found on at least four different pages of the log tables. Seven eight or even nine digit figures must be written five times for each course followed by two additions and a search for two antilogarithms. Also interpolation is necessary with seven place logs to get the same accuracy afforded by the Traverse Tables.
I will admit to having done that one time in my career. It was 1991. On a Saturday with no one on the construction site. Sent my helper back to get it while I kept busy doing other things that could be accomplished without it. Actually, it was only about 50 miles one way, but that was enough to keep me more alert ever since.
Today I would not accept a job 140 miles from base unless it was a freebie for a dear friend and those are in short supply so not too likely. Why anyone would want me to travel that far to do such a small job is silly. I would refer them to someone closer while I kept earning my money closer to home. Road time is a waste of my resources.
Well, you can see that all of the logs have had 10 added to them, remembering the old format that showed negative logs as a positive number minus 10. After that, I don't have a clue.
It does remind me of an old engineering entrance exam question: How would you measure the height of a 5-story building using an aneroid barometer? One answer was: I would lower the barometer on a string and measure the string.
@jt1950
If the client has a site that is 60-70 miles from the nearest motel they have to adjust their expectations. It's not that unusual.?ÿ
Especially if 30-40 miles of that is 10-20 mph two track and 2-5 mph Jeep Trail!
🙂
Loyal