April 2015 National Exam

Even though I took the exam not that long ago, I believe they changed it right after I got licensed. Is it a closed book exam now?

Anyway, this is what I used and passed it on the first shot:

reference materials

It is my understanding that it is now computer based, and closed book. I believe that the computer has reference material on it, but I cannot confirm that.

I have several friends on the TN licensing board, and we were talking about the new changes in the testing and how it has changed over the years.

I would think that the NCEES site might have some information on the new format.

First off, Congrats on passing the CA state exam! That is no small feat. The CA state exam and the national exam are two different animals. I know this personally after taking them within one week of each other in 2012 (first yr of CBT format).

The national exam focuses on more on federal survey guidelines and broad based survey principles.

Examples of federal survey guidelines would be:
ALTA standards
FGDC GPS guidelines
NGS Geodetic Leveling accuracy's
BLM Manual of Surveying- Public Lands

Examples of broad survey principles:

Coordinate Projections (UTM v Lambert Conical)
Basic boundary
Differential Leveling
Basic Riparian Rights
GPS
Survey Vocabulary
....and much more

This exam covers a broad scope of surveying, so be prepared for all aspects but the aforementioned will more than likely be on there.

Books I recommend:
ASCM Definitions of Surveying and Associated Terms
2009 BLM Manual
Brown's Boundary Control and Legal Principles (2nd Ed)

The guidelines for the aforementioned....

This is not a complete list but will definitely give you a good start:-D

If you don't have work experience with either ALTAs or FEMA certs make sure to study those. Also, I kept the practice test in my bathroom, that way I was able to study for a few minutes every day. On the test last year there were a few questions that came directly from the practice test.

If You Have Not Studied Till Now, It Is Too Late

The professional exam is something you spend many years getting ready for not a couple of months.

So what is your formal education to date?

I might give you a few ideas that might prepare you for san October exam. If you do not have a formal education it is time to start getting one.

I will not offer you a wish for good luck on the exam because we do not need lucky exam takers we need knowledgeable surveyors.

Paul in PA

I used Russell Brinker's 1000 questions, but that was back in 1980, now I can't even find it.

If You Have Not Studied Till Now, It Is Too Late

What you never crammed in college?!:-S

> Even though I took the exam not that long ago, I believe they changed it right after I got licensed. Is it a closed book exam now?
>
> Anyway, this is what I used and passed it on the first shot:
>
> reference materials

The National Exam is closed book. They only give you a reference guide.

Thanks!

> It is my understanding that it is now computer based, and closed book. I believe that the computer has reference material on it, but I cannot confirm that.
>
> I have several friends on the TN licensing board, and we were talking about the new changes in the testing and how it has changed over the years.
>
> I would think that the NCEES site might have some information on the new format.

When I took the National last April it was not computer based. I have heard that it will eventually be computer based.

Thanks!

> First off, Congrats on passing the CA state exam! That is no small feat. The CA state exam and the national exam are two different animals. I know this personally after taking them within one week of each other in 2012 (first yr of CBT format).
>
> The national exam focuses on more on federal survey guidelines and broad based survey principles.
>
> Examples of federal survey guidelines would be:
> ALTA standards
> FGDC GPS guidelines
> NGS Geodetic Leveling accuracy's
> BLM Manual of Surveying- Public Lands
>
> Examples of broad survey principles:
>
> Coordinate Projections (UTM v Lambert Conical)
> Basic boundary
> Differential Leveling
> Basic Riparian Rights
> GPS
> Survey Vocabulary
> ....and much more
>
> This exam covers a broad scope of surveying, so be prepared for all aspects but the aforementioned will more than likely be on there.
>
> Books I recommend:
> ASCM Definitions of Surveying and Associated Terms
> 2009 BLM Manual
> Brown's Boundary Control and Legal Principles (2nd Ed)
>
> The guidelines for the aforementioned....
>
> This is not a complete list but will definitely give you a good start:-D

Thank you very much. I was so relieved after I got the good news!

Ah yes, now i remember those topics on the test. I remember the second portion of the test had a lot of riparian rights questions.

Thanks again!

That's even better. I know they are moving in that direction. I thought they had already done so. Thanks for the clarification.

I can understand the FS being closed book, but do not agree with the PS being closed book.

If You Have Not Studied Till Now, It Is Too Late

> The professional exam is something you spend many years getting ready for not a couple of months.
>
> So what is your formal education to date?
>
> I might give you a few ideas that might prepare you for san October exam. If you do not have a formal education it is time to start getting one.
>
> I will not offer you a wish for good luck on the exam because we do not need lucky exam takers we need knowledgeable surveyors.
>
> Paul in PA

I have almost 11 years of surveying experience. I have an Associates of Science degree in Surveying and Mapping Sciences. I have my LSIT, and I just passed the CA State Exam in April. I have been studying since last April. I did not pass the National last April and decided to take one test at a time. First the State back in October and now the National. I just have a difficult time taking tests.

Thanks

If You Have Not Studied Till Now, It Is Too Late

I agree with your closing sentiment, but not with your statement on education.
My career started in 1979. When I took the tests in 2000 I had one surveying class under my belt. I took one algebra class after the exams and had zero before.
The general path to licensure will certainly be faster and smoother with an education. While the routes without extensive education are fading they are by no means gone. My point is that 'normal' isn't the same as 'only'. Perhaps encouraging someone to obtain an education rather than a blanket pooh pooh statement would better reflect reality...

What are your guys' thoughts on if the LSIT took place of the National Exam?

If You Have Not Studied Till Now, It Is Too Late

Ive seen many people(not all) come out of school with a surveying education that end up getting retaught by their new employer because they dont really know anything. I have gained a lot more knowledge and experience through working then sitting in a classroom. I am not putting down education at all. I think they do go hand in hand. I just wish their was more field experience than sitting in a classroom.

Probably Better Not To Cram

I had very difficult times in some exams in college, and I found out it was much better not to cram.

I did not receive notice I could take the FS & PS until less than a month before the exam. Someone asked how I was going to get ready in such time and I said "I am not, I have been getting ready for this my whole life."

At this point if you have not already done so, take the NCEES practice exam. Given the number of PS questions and the number of practice questions adjust your test time accordingly. Get your allowable material ready and take the practice exam. When the time is up, stop answering questions and score yourself. There is no magic that gets you a suddenly better score. You know it or not. Taking the actual test is the best practice to improve your confidence in your test taking performance.

I took the fundamentals, practice and PA exam in one weekend. On the way to my car during exam break I spotted a pin in the parking lot about 10' from the curb. I grabbed my lunch and a piece of ribbon and on my way back I flagged it up. I sat down at a picnic table with some other test takers and said confidently, "I just passed the exam." They had no immediate clue what I was talking about.

If your company does not do some things the best way to learn them is with another company. Doing the same things for 10 years is not 10 years experience , it may be only one year of experience repeated 10 times. Just as you need a variety of survey education, you need a variety of survey experience.

Paul in PA

I don't see how it can. From what I remember they were two very different exams. The FE exam required a lot of calculations and mathematics to solve the problems. I believe for the PS I used my calculator on two problems. Most of those problems were decision making, general knowledge, definitions, boundary principles, etc.

Not In Favor Of That

The LSIT i.e. Fundamentals of Land Surveying is now essentially a computer test of your education.

The PLS i.e. Principles and Practices (now just Practice) is supposed to be a test of your experience and use of knowledge. When it becomes computer based it will probably be less of a use test and more of a knowledge test.

NCEES is transitioning to computers to save money, I doubt it improves the testing ability. The Fundamentals of Engineering and Surveying were the first to switch as they are more general tests. Next will come the Civil and Mechanical PE tests, followed by Electrical and Chemical. Then come the lesser engineering tests, most likely during that third phase they will include surveying. That is predicted based on exam takers.

Four months of 2014
FE Civil 2500
FE Mech 1700
FE Elect 600
FE Chem 400

First time takers in October 2014:

PE Civil 4000 in 5 categories,
looks like they are going for multiple category licenses
PE Mech 1500 in 3 categories
PE Elect 1000
PE Chem 200
Also is the possibility of higher number of fundamental takers in Spring

The numbers actually look good for surveyor percentages
No count on FS takers, but for PS takers
First time takers in October 2014 pass rate 71% of 261 takers
Repeat takers 45% of 136

Statistically of those 261 first time takers, 91% will have passed in 3 or less tries. I believe that rate is going up as more and more test takers have education.

Paul in PA