I've been surveying this large parcel for years, for the owner, as he goes through different configurations and updates. Exceptionally decent man; he always gives me gifts when I'm on site, like a bag of fruit, or chocolates - all quality. Couple of years ago he sold 20 acres for a commercial site, all curvy, 15 boundary monuments. I've been working for the engineers doing the complicated easements to follow the curvy boundary. The developer has bladed the site, added the usual perimeter security fence, and started the big building. The leaseholder on the big building needs an updated survey. It's only 14 minutes from my house, 30 minutes to walk the new fence, and the same to locate the edges of the big building just starting to go up, so I said $2,100 and the hardest part will be erasing what was there before it was bladed out. Then they sent their insurance requirements and I start to lose interest because I don't need the aggravation, nor does my wife, and there is a bucket load of nonsense to deal with. We are heavily insured - I just don't want the hassle of their forms and multi-page contract with fine print. I point out if they are worried about something unfortunate happening while I'm on site I can easily get around that by never going on site - I can do it all with reflectorless and never set foot on the site. Or use a drone. I have controls everywhere so this is simple. Nope, no good, so I bow out.?ÿ
They will have a fit when they realize everyone is very busy, they don't want the hassle either, and by the time they visit each boundary monument in the cactus, reinvent the ton of curvy easements, and get it all plotted now we're talking real money.
I much prefer my stable of clients who send me nice notes saying they need this or that, and would I mind helping them, then pay by return mail. The rest can sit on it. 🙂
IMO the time it takes to deal with these hassles is every bit as billable as the surveying.?ÿ ?ÿ
Reminds me of a call from a few days ago.?ÿ A nice lady calls and starts asking about creating a few lots for building some relatively low dollar homes for relatively low income families.?ÿ Not your standard LOW INCOME type of project, but a lower middle class type of project.?ÿ That sounded sort of fishy
I kept asking questions and was narrowing down the precise location when I finally asked her how much land she owned in that spot.?ÿ She finally fessed up that she was calling on behalf of a business, which happens to be the largest construction company for many miles in any direction.?ÿ They want to take part of a tract the company owns maybe 60 acres in size so that this new subdivision would be more like eight acres.?ÿ However, what they want to do would include several acres that have already been platted in an existing subdivision of theirs.?ÿ All sorts of design requirements would apply, unlike would have been the case that she started describing to me in this rural county.?ÿ To top it off she was looking to get a fixed price to do whatever it was they dreamed up.
This firm has worked with dozens, if not over 100, survey firms on their various construction projects and have a collection of unlicensed workers who know how to layout buildings and related improvements within a given tract.?ÿ Obviously, another firm (or firms) had already laid out three other subdivisions for them in close proximity to this tract, including the chunk of existing subdivision they want to include in the current project.?ÿ She even told me that one of their unlicensed workers had come up with a plan and she would email that to me so I would know exactly what they wanted to do.
Nope.?ÿ I'm not the guy that's going to play their game.?ÿ Besides, why would they be contacting me out of the blue when I have never done any work for them anywhere at any time?
1) Every one else is too busy.
2) They've worn out their welcome at every other shop in town.
3) They're looking for a desperate sucker to do a P.I.A. job that no one else will take for 10x the dollars they hope to pay.
Then they sent their insurance requirements and I start to lose interest because I don't need the aggravation, nor does my wife, and there is a bucket load of nonsense to deal with
I've run into this several times during large townhome or condominium projects. It is not uncommon for a developer to start a project and then sell it before buildings are even started. Usually big conglomerates of investors, insurance companies, and some private investors. The amount and limits these people "demand" is insane for a small business. In predicaments like yours I have send certificates of insurance that I currently have for my company to them with a note stating these are our insurance limits, if you desire more coverage we will obtain same at your expense. I have been truly surprised at how many times their "insurance requirements" were waived. Try it, it might work. ???? ?ÿ
IMO the time it takes to deal with these hassles is every bit as billable as the surveying.?ÿ ?ÿ
Yes, and also similar to the value-added factor is a grief-ladened factor.
I had a similar large parcel of property I first surveyed 25 years ago.?ÿ Over the years (and three developers) I filed at least three plats within the original boundary, did scads of topos and two or three ALTAs of some of the finished improvements.?ÿ I couldn't count how many additional easements I've prepared in there in that time.?ÿ The last developer apparently passed some time back because I was hired to "distill" and prepare descriptions of the remaining unplatted areas for a probate attorney.
Fast forward to about three years ago.?ÿ I received a letter from law firm representing a national A&E firm.?ÿ This "out of State" company was apparently preparing a plat (or plats) of the last remaining undeveloped parcels within the original 60 acre boundary I had prepared years ago.?ÿ The letter was "a request for information and data" that I might have concerning the property.?ÿ I can't remember how it was worded but there was a distinct implication their client had a right to such info since they had purchased it from a party that had been my client.
I do remember they requested "any and all records and field notes, including digital point files" that I had collected pursuant to my preparation of adjoining recorded plats.?ÿ This information, as the letter stated, was as defined by TITLE 59, SECTIONS 475.1 ?? 475.22A
Oklahoma Statutes Regulating Professional Engineering and Land Surveying.?ÿ ?ÿIn a nutshell this statute says that if the State Board is investigating a survey of you performed, you are required to give them everything they request..?ÿ
I had to read it numerous times.?ÿ I realized I was being leaned on to cough what would probably be up a two-wheeler load of boxed files.?ÿ There's no doubt someone could plat that remaining land from a desk in Missouri if they had my files.?ÿ I looked up the CA of the firm to see if they had a licensed Oklahoma surveyor.?ÿ They did, and he wasn't local.?ÿ I called him.
When I finally got a hold of him I explained I thought their letter was a little inappropriate and it wasn't appreciated.?ÿ I related that I usually am free with specific requests fro other surveyors, but their request seem over the top and brusque.?ÿ He explained it was a "stock" letter they always send out in an effort to build records for properties with which they're involved.?ÿ He then apologized if I was offended.
I told him the real reason I called was because I didn't feel comfortable telling them to "sh*t and roll in it" in a letter.?ÿ And I apologized to him if he was offended.
I never heard from them again.
?ÿ
@brad-ott I call it the PITA tax (pain in the ass).?ÿ Mostly used in office, but I have told a couple of wanna be clients that their project would be $XXXX plus PITA tax which will make the total $XXXXX.
Mostly used in office, but I have told a couple of wanna be clients that their project would be $XXXX plus PITA tax which will make the total $XXXXX.
Worked for a small firm that had job order forms printed up in the late 80's.?ÿ There was a couple of check boxes on the bottom of the form and one was labeled "RH Factor".?ÿ I asked the boss what the heck RH stood for, and he replied with a grin "Robin Hood".?ÿ?ÿ
Very true.?ÿ But they still seem surprised after going back and forth with 20 emails, and possible changes, that your price somehow doubled.?ÿ
"I thought you said, $2100?"
@paden-cash Oh, yeah, I'm expecting a call from someone asking for my AutoCAD files. I normally share with my peers but in this case not so much.
There was a firm we often surveyed for. They did office buildings, parking lots, large expensive houses and even some smaller ones. The owners sold and the firm became corporate. Nice people but everything was contracted out. They no longer had carpenters, dirt guys, or even equipment to do that kinda work.?ÿ
The bid requests became awful, pages and pages of detail, over the top paperwork. Then they only went after government funded work, the insurance requirements inflated to double what I carry. Finally I stopped even bidding, the jobs went for nothing and the requirements were too restrictive. Sometimes it's good to fire a client. Losing money through G.O. time and extra insurance payments is not good business practice. You can bid it into the job, but you will never get the job, at least not around here.?ÿ
I fired a client last week. He wanted me to recover the lot corners (which I did) and set offsets for his building.?ÿ Sent me his plans which had setback information, some in feet and some in meters; I can handle that in two weeks if I had a check from him for my fee in advance. Wasn't good enough, I need to be there Saturday (its Thursday), and how much per hour do I charge? I told him no, don't call me again, good day. He has now had his contractor call and his wife call begging me to "honor my commitment". I can't retire soon enough.?ÿ
@flga-2 happens all the time. They ask for the moon we say this is how much we have and they say okay.
An unnamed nearby city made their surveyor an offer to retire that he couldn't refuse.
That left them without a surveyor, so he offered to "consult" for, say, $65/hour.
They thought that was too high, so they hired an engineer for, say, $125 an hour, thinking they would be getting more for their money.
The engineer hired the former surveyor for $75 an hour and billed the city for $125 an hour.
Win-win-lose.
I just keep smiling through this whole thread.?ÿ When potential clients start loading the process up with too many requirements, I just hit the "pass" button and take care of the people that repeat order with a simple email/phone call and no strings attached.
Licensed Land Surveyor
Finger Lakes Region, Upstate New York
?ÿ
Had a large corporation ask for a proposal on a project...then the hoops came...the needed a different contract, needed a different proposal, rewrite this, rewrite that, how much if we do it this way...
?ÿ
$10,000 line item for proposals and contract issues on their bill...
The cheapest way is to tell me, "Time and Materials and get going!"
