Thought I'd seen everything...

Mars Hill, don't you know ...

You'll see the light...

Eventually..... Somebody will replace the bulb....

Personally, I think this law *might* not be constitutional!

• N

Posted by: @jamesf1

One of the consequences of being a DarkSky community

Don't you mean "benefits"?

It also may likely have something to do with crime statistics and insurance rates and how much area is illuminated by a light pole.

@just-a-surveyor

Maybe?

But it's mostly about Light Pollution... 

I can't imagine why anyone would want to look at the stars...

@dougie

There is a regulation in New Smyrna Beach, FL about lights and the effects on nesting sea turtles. We have a condo there and one of our neighbors was fined $250 for not having their drapes (8' sliding glass doors) closed after dusk. Sea Turtles are shy of light and will either lay their eggs too close to the mhw or not at all. If they are not too tired they will return to sea and try again somewhere else. I hope to get video of hatchlings in early Sept. provided a Hurricane (Dorian so far) doesn't destroy all the nests.

"The Code Board -- which has the authority to impose fines up to $1,000 a day for first-time offenses and $5,000 a day for repeat offenses."

These people really mean business and fine the hell out of anybody.

We have around 10 sea turtle (Loggerhead) nests in a 800' strip along the beachfront, an abnormal amount and the Marine Patrol checks the nests all along the beach 4 times a day. God help the person that disturbs one.?ÿ

????

@flga-pls-2-2

God help the person indeed as I would be quite hostile to some inbred Jack A who would molest a turtle nest.

@flga-pls-2-2

When I was working on the BP oil spill cleanup we had NRAs (Natural Resource Assistants) assigned to sections of the beach.  Most were very young, just out of college.  I was eating lunch one day at a table with a few locals and one of the NRAs.  Someone asked about the turtle nests and one of the locals said he used to catch and eat the turtles.  You could see the NRA's ears perk up at that.  The local was asked what they tasted like and he replied, "Tasted kinda like Manatee to me".  I thought the NRA was going to choke on his food before they told him it was a joke.

Andy

Posted by: @jamesf1

I'm old enough to know that I haven't seen everything - but every once in a while something catches me off guard. Here's the latest one...

The City in which I reside has just implemented a new requirement. All businesses are now required to obtain a permit to replace an existing exterior light bulb. The permit application is 8 pages in length, and includes a lumen calculation sheet and a maximum permitted lumens worksheet, and requires a site plan, manufacturer's cutsheets, and a non-refundable $130 permit application fee. Yes, that's correct - every business owner has to pay a $130 fee to change a light bulb! City staff confirmed this but were uncertain as to whether the permit was temporary or permanent. They did acknowledge that a separate permit was not required for each bulb. One of the consequences of being a DarkSky community...

What's the fine for not doing the paperwork and paying the application fee? You know just changing the bulb and "rolling the dice"

Early this spring we vacationed near Sant Fe NM.?ÿ It was just outside of town and called El Dorado at Santa Fe.?ÿ I know they had pretty strict covenants in an attempt to limit "light pollution" of the night sky.?ÿ I wasn't that impressed.?ÿ We live in a pretty rural part of Western Illinois and there is a map you can look at and see how good the night sky is for light?ÿ pollution.?ÿ Other than the town of about 20,000 that is about 7 miles from our house, the night sky is pretty good.?ÿ Probably better that it was at Santa Fe.?ÿ There are some places if you go a little further out from Santa Fe that are better though.?ÿ?ÿ An 8 page document to change a light bulb??ÿ That's just nuts.?ÿ Can't they just publish a guide line.

So, how many people does it take to change a light bulb in DarkSky country?

?ÿ

?ÿ

Posted by: @williwaw

So, how many BUREAUCRATS does it take to change a light bulb in DarkSky country?

?ÿ

This reminds me of a job site I was working on, the Owner wanted step by step task on everything, everybody on site was doing, the example was how to change a light bulb, list all steps, then they wanted reverse steps for what to do with the old light bulb. If you have 10 steps on how to change the light bulb, they wanted 10 reverse steps with the old bulb ending up in the new bulb box. They asked if I would make task list for my job, I said sure I charge by the hour whatever list I need to make I will. They said we have the money make the list, and they meant it.

I have had a pretty bad day already, and I come in here and read this kinda stuff that someone thinks they can make someone do just because they live in a certain spot, or that their business is in a certain spot.?ÿ So much for the Land of the Free.?ÿ I am all for controlling light pollution, but I draw the line at being told I have to pay a fee to change a lightbulb, and fill out what sounds like an hour or more worth of paperwork.?ÿ

So all this film and beach action of nights at the beach with a small bonfire and drinking beer is just a fable then.

I can remember our family driving down onto Galveston beach and many other places to the southwest along the Gulf of Mexico to camp overnight while on vacations. That kinda started to be frowned upon during the 1960s and afterward.

Present time and for the last 40+ years I've enjoyed being in my back yard or most anywhere at our local lakes or rivers at night and burn something and look at the stars.

Have a dedicated portable fire pit, so I'm not just burning random stuff or witches.

We are still wrapping our heads around having to pay taxes on the amount of land that is paved or concreted that rainwater lands on and drains from our land on some property we have in Houston. Yeah, they have runoff taxes. Apparently, it's ok for rainwater to drain across dirt and sod. So, they are taxing surface development along with structures and other improvements.

Light pollution, what a load of horse manure.?ÿ You want to see the stars??ÿ?ÿ Become an astronaut.

Humans have an instinctual calling to surround themselves with other humans with which they share commonality.?ÿ This instinct is probably at the root of our tribalism and the desire to protect our ilk and therefor survive.?ÿ And from that evolved social mores and laws. But somewhere along the line our desire to protect ourselves from lawbreakers and evil we decided to create laws that embolden the esprit de corps no matter how asinine.?ÿ We are now on the slippery slope of creating laws and ordinances that attempt to manage our behavior and attitudes.?ÿ I have no doubt in my mind there is some hamlet full of ignorant narcissism somewhere that has mulled over the proposition of outlawing certain ideas or beliefs contrary to the majority like political affiliations or even certain religions.

We had a mayor in Oklahoma City years ago that declared it illegal to plant a female cottonwood tree because of the incessant cotton-like seeds they produce in the early summer...no doubt only to clog your outdoor AC evaporator.?ÿ To me that is the height of arrogance to create laws against something that occurs in nature.?ÿ

This light-bulb changing ordinance is a good example of folks creating laws to elevate their esteem or to create some mystical importance indicating the environment would go to hell if they weren't around to police our behavior.?ÿ Enforcement of such silly-ass ordinances would be truly difficult. I guess the taxpayers will be burdened with the additional cost of "light-bulb police" sneaking around watching for common criminals (the bastards!) attempting to illuminate a dark alley or sidewalk.?ÿ

I clipped this from an article touting the importance of dark skies in Santa Fe:

"It's fun and it's beautiful, but a growing body of research also shows that dark skies have critical health effects for people and wildlife. Lighting can affect nocturnal pollinators, as well as bird migration and health, with recent research finding that house sparrows infected with West Nile virus who were exposed to dim light at night remained infectious for a longer period of time. For people, spending time in the dark can help re-sync circadian rhythms and improve physical and mental health."?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ

I'm just afraid people who want to sit in total darkness at night might eventually get their way....one way or the other.