The 2018 Tax Act : Surveyors and Engineers are being left out of the tax cut

I'm not sure there's any way to respond substantively to this topic without violating the "no politics" rule.

My interpretation of the new tax bill is that it EXCLUDES professional service companies. We would be taxed at the normal rate.

I checked NSPS Advocacy, and the Political Action Committee (PAC) of NSPS), and as I expected, they don't even mention it. Typical.

This is incredible. We need to do something, and our national source is NSPS. I really don't think it is fair for us to be taxed at the regular rate, say 35%, and our neighbor who may be a high-end professional might be taxed at 25%.

I thought the tax bill was to help small business. BULL.

I suggest that postings don't simply don't get political. We need to figure out what to do for positive action on this.

I'm possibly a part of the problem, only paying local dues. However, NSPS should be that voice.

I haven't independently confirmed your understanding but... (myriad comments ranging from pragmatic to pessimistic; philosophical to political, omitted).

I suggest making a phone call or email to your state's NSPS Governor to discuss your finding. I suspect the Political Action Committee won't do any lobbying without being directed by the Board of Governors.

There ain't a damn thing you can do about it other than accept and "deal with it". ?

I've been watching this pretty closely too. I'm not terribly optimistic, but there are a few variables still. It looks like the Senate bill may be a bit more favorable to so-called "pass-through" business than the House bill. I believe that the Senate version has a 23% standard deduction for pass-through. I don't know how that works with the standard deduction, if both can be claimed. It sounds like expenses may not be able to be deducted. Maybe that's only on certain expenses though.?ÿ

A lot more questions still than answers at this point, but the momentum definitely does not seem to be moving in our direction.?ÿ

One thing I discussed with Mrs Billings, who keeps up with our expenses constantly. Even if we lose a little in tax liability, we may come out ahead when considering the cost of keeping up with it all. Just trying to keep positive.?ÿ

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Regarding lobbying efforts, I doubt NSPS has enough stroke to make much difference on this issue.?ÿ

Not to get too political, but I don't think you can blame any of this on NSPS.?ÿ It is not like the proposed bills have gone through any public process.

Not sure anyone really knows yet.?ÿ But last report I saw showed service business at higher rate for qualifying income over $150,000; so some lower, some remains higher.?ÿ

Also, gives?ÿservice business?ÿmore expensing in order to purchase robots, etc., and makes it easy to convert employees to contractor status without subsequent irs or court challenge.?ÿ

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Face it. The NSPS simply does not have the political juice to be heard on these subjects. There just aren't enough of us. There are 10 engineers for every surveyor and they don't have the clout.?ÿ

As I suggested earlier, I spoke with the Mass. director for NSPS (governors are now called directors), and found that he had not heard anything about this as yet. He said that the lobbyist who is contracted to NSPS is "very proactive" in identifying legislation of interest to surveyors. He said that he would check with the executive board and see if there has been any discussion about the bill, make sure they are aware of this possible issue.

Norman Oklahoma is correct that NSPS has very little political juice when thought of as a single organization.?ÿ However, as one of many organizations representing service-based businesses, the cumulative effect of many such organizations chiming in with "hey, what about us?" may be able to sway things as the powers-that-be negotiate the final version of the bill.

Do you have any sources for what you've read on the matter? Could you copy/paste the section that you're referring to?

I just heard back from the Mass. NSPS Director - there was a meeting on Monday between the NSPS Executive Director, the lobbyist, and the government affairs consultant.?ÿ The tax reform bill was one of the subjects discussed.

I found this from taxfoundation.org

Establishes a 20 percent deduction of qualified business income from certain pass-through businesses. Specific service industries, such as health, law, and professional services, are excluded. However, joint filers with income below $315,000 and other filers with income below $157,500 can claim the deduction fully on income from service industries. This provision would expire December 31, 2025.

There was a conference agreement in the Dec 15 version of the bill that excluded engineering and architecture services from the service industry. I wonder if surveyors would fall in this category.

Posted by: antcrook

There was a conference agreement in the Dec 15 version of the bill that excluded engineering and architecture services from the service industry. I wonder if surveyors would fall in this category.

Might be the only time you hear a surveyor say they are in engineering.

Might be the only time you hear a surveyor say they are in engineering.

I think it's the other way around:?ÿ engineering and architecture are not allowed to use the lower rate, so surveyors would want to claim that they're not engineering businesses.

The engineers and architects lobbied to have the exclusion -?ÿ https://www.enr.com/articles/43659-engineers-and-architects-gain-pass-through-tax-deduction

I had been reading older versions of the bill that lumped engineers and architects in with all the other professional services firms not entitled to the 20% deduction for pass-through entities.?ÿ The conference agreement -- and presumably the final bill -- strips engineers and architects out of that definition and allows them to take the deduction.?ÿ So I guess surveyors *will* want to be seen as coming under the engineering umbrella.?ÿ Whether that's going to fly or not remains to be seen.

A more recent reading of the bill's provisions lead me to believe that a sole proprietor land surveyor will be eligible to take the 20% business income deduction -- in addition to the standard deduction -- if his/her business income is less than $157,500 (filing single) or $315,000 (married filing jointly). It seems to me that these phase-out limits will cover most sole proprietors.