> > Stake out work, as-builds, and so forth all still requires investigation and the formulation of a professional opinion as well as liability.
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> Liability, yes. Formulation of a professional opinion for the mentioned tasks, well, I don't know, seems a bit far fetched.
Yes, sometimes it does. A couple of weeks ago we had an as-built for a reasonable sized cable laying job, where there was a dispute over how much had been laid (post-completion contract check had been done with a wheel and a Garmin). We split our measurement down into the various ground conditions through which the work had passed and the results are being used as the accepted solution. Parties arguing over a 6 figure sum.
Next week we are measuring up yet another 50 metre swimming pool - in this one each of the sub-activities appears to have met the spec. (pool tank, bulkhead, touch-pads) but when combined the overall design fails to meet the FINA standards. We will end up having to decide how and why it ain't OK and advise on the solution.
(Don't reply with questions about why FINA doesn't have consistent specs. on tolerances - I've run out of brick walls to bang my head against!)
So yes, in some cases the professional surveyor does have to formulate an opinion which can have significant financial implications.
One difference between the US and UK is that we don't have a measured cadastral system, so that basic work load doesn't exist. In turn this gives rise to a significant number of non-qualified surveyors being able to practice.
"Surveyors who are in business make very little money.
Businessmen who are surveyors seem to do quite well."
:good: :good:
I believe surveys have been relegated to a commodity...especially the mortgage or boundary survey...How can you be paid 1988 prices in 2014?? be a surveyor.
I respectively disagree. It is too simpleminded to scapegoat unions all the time and I don't wànt to go political on you here .
Rates are high here and unions are non-existent,
High insurance, workmans comp, and other taxes/fees impact rates.
Anybody can formulate a professional opinion: time to change your break pads (mechanic), you should consider the fish instead of the chicken (waiter), etc.
You want my professional opinion? This site is great.
I'm going to be blunt...
I understand there ARE surveyors that play cut-throat games with their fees. And I would be lying if I said their activity doesn't enter into conversations I have with prospective clients. But if you're unhappy with your accrued professional income, charge more.
Client "sticker-shock" is a way of life in the surveying profession. But finding a "cheaper" price if you look around is not unique to the industry. I'm betting with your electricians and plumbers you could have found some fly-by-night fella with lower than average prices also.
My fees are fair and professional. I have a butt-load of work stacked up. If a client is so low-budgeted they're reduced to taking the cheapest price they can find, you probably didn't need to be messing with the work anyway. Plain and simple.
Someone here once said "Work half as much and double your rates".
...It does work.
I'm looking at having a bathroom in our 1910 house brought into the at least the 1990's. We had a design/build contractor come by to give us a ball park figure. After I got back in my chair when I fell over at the estimate the designer told me how expensive it was to be a builder. My wife said she saw the veins in my head almost explode.
What we have as a profession is an image problem. Let alone the fact that people don't understand the training, education and liability that come our profession, they have not got a clue on the capital investment. I'm just a small shop and I have around $400k in field gear.
Until we educate the general public and cull out the pond sucking low ballers we will never elevate our condition. I also think that instead of distancing ourselves from the engineering side of our profession we embrace it.
I'm fortunate that my work has always been slanted towards the design side and my clients generally understand the value in a survey. I feel for those who work with the general public when they are fighting with the neighbor over property line.
I'm going to be blunt...
>
>
> Someone here once said "Work half as much and double your rates".
>
> ...It does work.
I agree 100%. A wise businessman told me that the easiest way to increase profits is to increase your rates. You can increase your rates 10% with the stroke of a pen. Do you know how much harder you would have to work to increase your profits by 10% without changing your rates? A lot!
:good:
I couldn't disagree more, I don't think we are over paying for electricians and plumbers, I think we are drastically undervaluing ourselves. If you aren't charging at least in the 125-175 an hr range for fieldwork, your out of your mind. These fly by night guys have to go. The gear costs too much, the liability is too high, the training and license period is too long, and the guys that can actually become good surveyors are far too few to go around bidding 500 a day on jobs.
I don't know about unionizing or anything, but there has to be a way to get these bottomfeeders and their crap work out of the profession.
> I'm looking at having a bathroom in our 1910 house brought into the at least the 1990's. We had a design/build contractor come by to give us a ball park figure. After I got back in my chair when I fell over at the estimate the designer told me how expensive it was to be a builder. My wife said she saw the veins in my head almost explode.
You shouldn't be surprised. I can explain that. Part of that "estimate" is that in a re-model job you just don't know what you might get into until you're into it so they "estimate" on the high side. I can give plenty of up-close-and-personal examples of this. A lady wanted me and my partner to "simply" replace two sliding glass doors with new ones. Simple enough right? We were going to do it on a Sat. since we had nothing else to do. We figured about 4 hours. We were both experienced at this and we had the first door done in about an hour. The 2nd door turned out being a project all by itself. The framing had it stuck in place and we couldn't get it out. Out comes my $200 sawsall (thank God I had one) and we'll just cut it out and re-frame it. No problem right? We've already blown our 4 hour estimate by then.
Well... while cut out the old door we went through some wiring - now it has turned into an electrical job as well. A couple hours later I have the electrical work done - or re-done as it were.
So, we finally got the old door out and somewhat re-framed ready for the new one - right until my little 130 pound frame stepped right through the flooring. Frack! Now we have to replace some flooring!! We pull back the carpet and cut out the bad part only to find water damage (i.e. rot) on the bottom wall plate and floor joists. I had no problem getting the rotten part - my hammer claw easily took care of that.
My point is, me and Curtis both agreed on our $200 "estimate" just to replace the doors - no materials or special tools expected. The lady went with me to buy the doors, which she paid for, to be sure we had the right stuff. What prompted her to side-contract us on that I don't know. We were re-modelling the entire house anyway - inside and out paid by the hour with an open account and our local building supplier for anything we needed.
Anyway, me and Curtis lost our assssses on that "little" afternoon job which turned into 3 days. We never did that again.
As to low-balling surveyors, I can only imagine they must be jack-legs in need of some beer money.
I have had people try to haggle with me about trying to buy something I didn't really want to sell but could part with or do a job I wasn't really interested in (write software, remodel a house, etc.) I'll give a price - say $1000.
They counter with $750 to which I immediately reply with $5000. Either they get that I ain't playing or they'll counter with $900 to which I'll reply with $10,000.
That pretty much stops any haggling straight away.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it! 😉
E
You aren't wrong, but I'm more concerned that we are pricing ourselves into that category than I am that we could be referred to in that category.