I had a call come in from a homeowner wishing to build a fence. He said he had already had the services of a 'surveyor' but that there was some discrepancy and that he wanted a second opinion.
He explained that after calling through a handful of google results and finding 10-12 weeks out being the norm, he got to a guy who provides Aerial Mapping Services. This guy advised that he could come out and mark his lines within a few days, for $200. The homeowner said he came out with some type of 'machine' and staked the boundary line in question. When asked later, the aerial mapper said he relied up on publicly available GIS parcel data and GPS to mark the line.
Upon marking, the homeowner felt it wasn't right. He asked the 'surveyor' if he was sure, was told it was close though 'it probably wouldn't hold up in court'. When the fence estimator came out, he offered to check a distance with a measuring wheel from one known corner and said that the stakes appeared to be 6 feet out of what the plat says, but smartly clarified he was not a land surveyor and recommended homeowner hire one.
Sensing trouble, the homeowner pulled out all of the stakes set by the aerial mapper and is asking me for a price and schedule for a certified boundary survey.
Homeowner provided me information on the aerial mapper, and I see he is young, recent college grad, with a very new drone business. Offering everything from aerial mapping, inspection, stockpile volumes, to real estate, wedding, and live event aerial video. My read is that he is a kid with a drone and a Part 107 willing to do anything anyone is willing to pay him for. I think he probably means well but is ignorant of where his limits are.
I am in North Carolina. If this kid told homeowner he was marking boundary lines, I believe he's practiced without a license. I don't know what methods he used to locate those lines, but I don't think it matters. The homeowner called him to mark boundary lines, mapper came and put stakes in the ground, and charged a fee. He is not a PLS and does not appear to be supervised or in any other way involved with one.
My first inclination is to call this kid up and offer some unsolicited guidance and advice, and perhaps send a few statues for him to review. Thoughts?
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Absolutely I would call him, too.?ÿ ?ÿI'd probably call the state as well.?ÿ?ÿ
Sounds like a very reasonable way to possibly steer someone in the right direction without causing him severe consequences.
I'd call and discuss the situation he has put himself into.?ÿ If he takes your unsolicited advice, you succeeded in educating a young man that is trying to make a living.?ÿ If he gives any static back, what-so-ever, file a complaint with your board.
My recommendation would be to go ahead and turn that one over to the board.?ÿ Reason being - you know of one instance of surveying without a license, the board will investigate and find out about the others.?ÿ The board can then let those individuals know to not rely on the "survey" they received in order to stop any future problems as soon as possible.
The kid will probably get a scolding and told don't do that again.?ÿ If he is wise he'll listen.?ÿ If not, he'll be on the boards radar already.
I'd call and discuss the situation he has put himself into.?ÿ If he takes your unsolicited advice, you succeeded in educating a young man that is trying to make a living.?ÿ If he gives any static back, what-so-ever, file a complaint with your board.
A call to this lad would be a start. If he doesn't respond well to your guidance, NCBELS is your next call.
My understanding as an NC PLS provided for consideration: I don't believe our board can file criminal complaints, only civil. Reading the board's newsletters over the years involving situations like this, they normally forward a cease and desist until properly licensed. If there isn't compliance, they may levy civil penalties.
I agree with the previous opinions. Some guidance and discussion of the rules is warranted. Maybe there's a future employee/ colleague in the stew.
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How valuable is your time as a land surveyor??ÿ How well versed are you at enforcing and communicating compliance with NC's laws on practicing land surveying??ÿ Why does "this kid" need to listen to you?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic with these comments.?ÿ Your time is too valuable at what you are trained and licensed to do.?ÿ And the people at the Board are likewise trained to do what they are supposed to be doing.?ÿ Let the licensing board handle this - that is what they are there for.
First, he??s not a kid. I??d call the board for reasons stated. ?ÿIf he doesn??t know better he soon will.
Hire him
I'd call and discuss the situation he has put himself into.?ÿ If he takes your unsolicited advice, you succeeded in educating a young man that is trying to make a living.?ÿ If he gives any static back, what-so-ever, file a complaint with your board.
And email him a copy of what you just asked us. ?????ÿ
The 2 states where I practice the most have specific administrative rules that strongly suggests or requires referral to the board.
I reached out and spoke with him. He was eager to talk. I explained what I had come across, and I was just making a friendly call and acting in no other capacity. He knew he was skirting the line... He said he had been clear with the Homeowner what his service was ("a visual representation of his line as shown by county GIS") and was not ("a boundary survey"). Obviously a layperson would have no hope of understanding that distinction.?ÿ Frankly the fact that he was careful to use that wordplay gave was telling.
He actually described exactly what he did. He flew the parcel with his UAV, presumably with onboard GNSS. ("It's very accurate, uses up to 15 satellites, 97% confidence", he tells me...) He georeferenced the orthoimage and overlayed county GIS Parcel data, taking note of the offset between the parcel line and the edge of concrete driveway. Then he went back to the house, pulled a tape off the driveway and staked it off.
He said this was the first time he'd provided a service like that, and with this call it would be the last. Then he proceeds to tell me that just today he had received a call for a similar request, but that this time when the client was advised, she said "no, I need an actual survey."
Not sure what I'll next, looking further at his website, he's at minimum flirting with if not over the line with survey in many of the mapping services he's offering. I was a bit out of my depth, but it's my read that our boards opinion that providing any map that has measurements or could be measured from, constitutes land survey. Even putting a north arrow or scale bar is enough to cross the line.
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It??s best to learn to do things right when you??re young so it becomes a lifelong habit. We have too many examples of people who didn??t learn that. Both young and old.
you need to let him know that the NC the board has already gone after other for doing this. He's offering services that he's not technically licensed to provide. This thread came up just over a year ago - same thing & NCBELS was issuing cease/desist letter
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in WA state, a licensee has an obligation to report to the state. If it is discovered you were aware and didn??t report, you are liable.
In minor cases (expired or missing stamp or certificate), I notify the license holder, and include the statement ??I am assuming that corrective action will be taken by you, relieving me of the obligation to notify the licensing board?.
In the case of practicing without a license, I would be obligated to inform the board, but I would certainly notify the young man as well. Assuming it is ignorance, and not acting nefariously, I would freely give all the advise I could.
He knew he was skirting the line...
In pretty much ever instance I've seen of unlicensed practice, the person breaking the law knew that was the case, but justified it to themselves by claiming it was just barely doing so because they weren't "really" surveying just telling people where their boundaries were.
You have much more faith in people than I do.?ÿ I highly suspect that was not his first instance of providing such a service.?ÿ Hopefully it will be his last.
Over the last 12 years, I've pretty much heard every story imaginable from unlicensed people providing surveying, engineering, and geology services and I can accurately state...that if they do not experience suitable repercussions as a result of their actions, they will not stop regardless of what they tell you.?ÿ And even then, a very large percentage of those will still try it again....
That's what I would've done too.?ÿ As said above, I wouldn't have reported him unless he made it into a debate or a fight.
Did he give the homeowner his $200 back?