Municipal Surveyor

You would need to explore your state laws that define the practice of surveying and if you are performing any of those items then you need to have a licensed (or registered) person on staff, overseeing the land surveying being performed.

So, funny how I've done some research on this topic for a while and then decide to post this and now after this post I just came across some guidelines. I believe it answered my questions. Here at the Borough we are doing no more developing and are land locked. Because of no more subdivisions or lot plans through a municipality we will not have to have a PLS for 'review'. The surveying we do is more for As-Built and Street Reconstruction where it is signed and sealed by our Borough P.E. Simple enough after you click a few links and stumble across the right guidelines!

Thanks anyways for everyone reading.

In Oklahoma the surveying incidental to engineering projects is generally not considered land surveying. The fly in the ointment is that Statutes state that anything represented with a precise measurement (R/W) to a property or land line does fall under the definition of land surveying. Your mileage may vary. Good luck.

I recommend that you contact the retired Public Works Director and have them provide a letter of recommendation for your licensing board. It should state how long that you worked under his guidance and what type of work that you did. This letter should be inserted into any application that you go for and will be very helpful if you choose to change jobs.
Good work, pursue the licenses, it doesn't matter how old you are.

Daniel Ralph, post: 406313, member: 8817 wrote: I recommend that you contact the retired Public Works Director and have them provide a letter of recommendation for your licensing board. It should state how long that you worked under his guidance and what type of work that you did. This letter should be inserted into any application that you go for and will be very helpful if you choose to change jobs.
Good work, pursue the licenses, it doesn't matter how old you are.

Thank you for responding. Yes, he did give me his contact information when he retired so when the day comes I can use him as a reference. Contact information I will never lose, that's for sure! Appreciate the response.

I wouldn't wait until it is convenient or necessary for you. There is no better time then the present to get this letter. Things happen to us older folks and younger ones too for that matter, that cannot be undone. Almost every mentor that I would consider necessary to my advancement, is either dead, moved to somewhere I am not aware of or has experienced stroke.

One thing you may want to consider as well, is most experience must be obtained under the direct supervision of a PLS or PE, depending on how your state laws are written. I believe the days of taking all three exams in one weekend are long gone, at least in Tennessee anyway.

All 5 states I am licensed in require that the PLS candidate must have boundary experience under a PLS. I would get that letter as soon as possible. Daniel is 100% correct. Start checking those laws now in relation to the licenses you are pursuing.

You need either a degree from an ABET accredited college or 6+ years of progressive experience under a licensed PLS in PA.
The tricky part if going the 6+ year route is gaining experience in a variety of surveying disciplines.
The degree route in PA limits you to Penn State Wilksbarre or Penn Tech in Williamsport. Both which are about $7,000 a semester
Practicing Land surveying and more particularly so boundary if not a PLS in PA or under the direct supervision of a PLS is illegal and punishable by law in PA.

pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.47.html

Per http://www.psls.org/Resources/Documents/EngLSGeo%20Act%20367%5B1%5D.pdf
P.L. 913, No. 367 Cl. 63
Section 2. Definitions.
As used in this act

(d) ‰ÛÏPractice of Land Surveying‰Û means the practice of that branch of the profession of engineering which involves the location, relocation, establishment, reestablishment or retracement of any property line or boundary of any parcel of land or any road right-of-way, easement or alignment; the use of principles of land surveying, determination of the position of any monument or reference point which marks a property line boundary, or corner setting, resetting or replacing any such monument or individual point including the writing of deed descriptions; procuring or offering to procure land surveying work for himself or others; managing or conducting as managers, proprietors or agent any place of business from which land surveying work is solicited, performed, or practiced; the performance of the foregoing acts and services being prohibited to persons who are not granted certificates of registration under this act as a professional land surveyor unless exempt under other provisions of this act.
((d) amended Dec. 13, 1979, P.L.534, No.120)

(e) ‰ÛÏProfessional Engineer‰Û means an individual licensed and registered under the laws of this Commonwealth to engage in the practice of engineering. A professional engineer may not practice land surveying unless licensed and registered as a professional land surveyor as defined and set forth in this act; however, a professional engineer may perform engineering land surveys.
((e) amended Dec. 13, 1979, P.L.534, No.120)

(f) ‰ÛÏProfessional Land Surveyor‰Û means an individual licensed and registered under the laws of this Commonwealth to engage in the practice of land surveying. A professional land surveyor may perform engineering land surveys but may not practice any other branch of engineering.

(j) ‰ÛÏEngineering Land Surveys‰Û means surveys for:
(i) the development of any tract of land including the incidental design of related improvements, such as line and grade extension of roads, sewers and grading but not requiring independent engineering judgment: Provided, however, That tract perimeter surveys shall be the function of the Professional Land Surveyor;
(ii) the determination of the configuration or contour of the earth‰Ûªs surface, or the position of fixed objects thereon or related thereto by means of measuring lines and angles and applying the principles of mathematics, photogrammetry or other measurement methods;
(iii) geodetic survey, underground survey and hydrographic survey;
(iv) storm water management surveys and sedimentation and erosion control surveys;
(v) the determination of the quantities of materials;
(vi) tests for water percolation in soils; and
(vii) the preparation of plans and specifications and estimates of proposed work and attendant costs as described in this subsection.
((j) amended Dec. 19, 1990, P.L.782, No.192)

Do your plans show any boundaries?
If not, how do you know that the designed improvements are on the subject property/ROW?
The law reads to me: If the plans show boundaries then you need a PLS in responsible charge of that component of the plans.
I don't know how you can develop a project with a land component without having site control and you can't have site control without boundaries so every project with a land component needs to have a PLS involved.
It looks like the rest of the surveying can be done under the supervision of a PE.

Formerly document your time under the PLS - whether you pursue licensure or not. It's a sad thing when someone has legit time but they can't document it because the person in responsible charge is unavailable (moved, dementia, dirt nap, etc.)

Good luck

Survey_Tech&Wetlands_Guy, post: 406368, member: 12359 wrote: You need either a degree from an ABET accredited college or 6+ years of progressive experience under a licensed PLS in PA.
The tricky part if going the 6+ year route is gaining experience in a variety of surveying disciplines.
The degree route in PA limits you to Penn State Wilksbarre or Penn Tech in Williamsport. Both which are about $7,000 a semester
Practicing Land surveying and more particularly so boundary if not a PLS in PA or under the direct supervision of a PLS is illegal and punishable by law in PA.

pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.47.html

Thanks. I have three degrees from Penn Tech (Civil B.S. , Surveying A.S. , Business Management B.S. (complete Fall 2017 online)). I just never sat for my SIT or EIT as it wasn't going to help me with pay raise at my current positions. Looking back, I was young and dumb! Looks like you are same age as me and from PA, we may have went to school together if you went to Penn Tech.

JKinAK, post: 406373, member: 7219 wrote: Per http://www.psls.org/Resources/Documents/EngLSGeo%20Act%20367%5B1%5D.pdf&apos ;"> http://www.psls.org/Resources/Documents/EngLSGeo Act 367[1].pdf
P.L. 913, No. 367 Cl. 63
Section 2. Definitions.
As used in this act

(d) ‰ÛÏPractice of Land Surveying‰Û means the practice of that branch of the profession of engineering which involves the location, relocation, establishment, reestablishment or retracement of any property line or boundary of any parcel of land or any road right-of-way, easement or alignment; the use of principles of land surveying, determination of the position of any monument or reference point which marks a property line boundary, or corner setting, resetting or replacing any such monument or individual point including the writing of deed descriptions; procuring or offering to procure land surveying work for himself or others; managing or conducting as managers, proprietors or agent any place of business from which land surveying work is solicited, performed, or practiced; the performance of the foregoing acts and services being prohibited to persons who are not granted certificates of registration under this act as a professional land surveyor unless exempt under other provisions of this act.
((d) amended Dec. 13, 1979, P.L.534, No.120)

(e) ‰ÛÏProfessional Engineer‰Û means an individual licensed and registered under the laws of this Commonwealth to engage in the practice of engineering. A professional engineer may not practice land surveying unless licensed and registered as a professional land surveyor as defined and set forth in this act; however, a professional engineer may perform engineering land surveys.
((e) amended Dec. 13, 1979, P.L.534, No.120)

(f) ‰ÛÏProfessional Land Surveyor‰Û means an individual licensed and registered under the laws of this Commonwealth to engage in the practice of land surveying. A professional land surveyor may perform engineering land surveys but may not practice any other branch of engineering.

(j) ‰ÛÏEngineering Land Surveys‰Û means surveys for:
(i) the development of any tract of land including the incidental design of related improvements, such as line and grade extension of roads, sewers and grading but not requiring independent engineering judgment: Provided, however, That tract perimeter surveys shall be the function of the Professional Land Surveyor;
(ii) the determination of the configuration or contour of the earth‰Ûªs surface, or the position of fixed objects thereon or related thereto by means of measuring lines and angles and applying the principles of mathematics, photogrammetry or other measurement methods;
(iii) geodetic survey, underground survey and hydrographic survey;
(iv) storm water management surveys and sedimentation and erosion control surveys;
(v) the determination of the quantities of materials;
(vi) tests for water percolation in soils; and
(vii) the preparation of plans and specifications and estimates of proposed work and attendant costs as described in this subsection.
((j) amended Dec. 19, 1990, P.L.782, No.192)

Do your plans show any boundaries?
If not, how do you know that the designed improvements are on the subject property/ROW?
The law reads to me: If the plans show boundaries then you need a PLS in responsible charge of that component of the plans.
I don't know how you can develop a project with a land component without having site control and you can't have site control without boundaries so every project with a land component needs to have a PLS involved.
It looks like the rest of the surveying can be done under the supervision of a PE.

Formerly document your time under the PLS - whether you pursue licensure or not. It's a sad thing when someone has legit time but they can't document it because the person in responsible charge is unavailable (moved, dementia, dirt nap, etc.)

Good luck

Thank you for this information, I will pass it along to my supervisor now. We may have to work with a consultant then until I either obtain PLS status or we hire a PLS. The work we do here is simplified in your findings. Yes, we show boundaries, show our Rights of Ways for each street reconstruction project for limits of work, sometimes have to survey easements. It's just when the PLS was here he never over looked any of that, was never involved in any plan work, any survey done has been stamped and sealed by the PE.

I am going to contact all people I have worked under that have professional licensure because you all made a good point about something could happen and then I could be out a reference or recommendation. Thank you all for this information!

As for the EIT, do it ASAP. Ideally it should be taken as soon after graduation as possible or even earlier, where allowed. Wait too long and it gets tougher every time, or so I have been told by those who could never pass it. Believe me, you want to pass it on the first try.

In Ky. It is now possible to take the PE right out of college. You don't actually get your license until you get the 4 years work experience, but you don't have to wait to take the test. Middle daughter is going that route, already passed the test.

Holy Cow, post: 406412, member: 50 wrote: As for the EIT, do it ASAP. Ideally it should be taken as soon after graduation as possible or even earlier, where allowed. Wait too long and it gets tougher every time, or so I have been told by those who could never pass it. Believe me, you want to pass it on the first try.

I would assume if you are defining boundaries (not necessarily just creating them but more importantly reconstructing them whether they are private boundaries or right of way boundaries) then I would think you need a pls. Otherwise what the heck else would you need a pls license for?

SCB_SURVEYOR, post: 406403, member: 12358 wrote: Thank you for this information, I will pass it along to my supervisor now. We may have to work with a consultant then until I either obtain PLS status or we hire a PLS. The work we do here is simplified in your findings. Yes, we show boundaries, show our Rights of Ways for each street reconstruction project for limits of work, sometimes have to survey easements. It's just when the PLS was here he never over looked any of that, was never involved in any plan work, any survey done has been stamped and sealed by the PE.

I am going to contact all people I have worked under that have professional licensure because you all made a good point about something could happen and then I could be out a reference or recommendation. Thank you all for this information!

I would ask them to fill out a reference form and seal it in an envelope according to Board rules. It took me 10 months to get approved in Utah while they changed reference forms (twice). Letters weren't even considered. Every State is different so read up...

Survey_Tech&Wetlands_Guy, post: 406368, member: 12359 wrote: You need either a degree from an ABET accredited college or 6+ years of progressive experience under a licensed PLS in PA.
The tricky part if going the 6+ year route is gaining experience in a variety of surveying disciplines.
The degree route in PA limits you to Penn State Wilksbarre or Penn Tech in Williamsport. Both which are about $7,000 a semester
Practicing Land surveying and more particularly so boundary if not a PLS in PA or under the direct supervision of a PLS is illegal and punishable by law in PA.

pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.47.html

You need 6 years of progressive experience to sit for your SIT. You need another 4 years to sit for the PLS exam.