I have a couple of long term good employees that are just about at the top of their pay scale. There has been several hints over the last year that "raises" are in order. Due to a financial and ownership restructuring I've put their "hints" on back burners. I'm going to have to do something soon.
Here's the ugly truth: Although all of my employees are really good people and know their job well, I could probably replace them with someone younger and cheaper...without too much trouble. We all function well together and everybody knows what page everybody else is on...but no one is indispensable.
None of the two or three have any interest in licensure. And I don't think licensure is anything that should be dangled in front of an employee anyway. I have urged a few employees over the years to strive for that goal, but just because they were good surveyors. It had nothing to do with their jobs. I probably wouldn't offer anybody a raise if they became licensed because I already have a license anyway, I don't need another one. Licensure to me is a personal goal that is extraneous to employment at my outfit.
I really like my employees and have taken as good a care of them as I can. From a business standpoint I would be better off by getting rid of them and hiring someone younger with some youthful fire. I probably won't do that though.... I guess my employees should be thankful I'm a surveyor and not a business man.
A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
You would let a good employee go; with the hopes of hiring someone just as good, for less money?
Wow.....just wow.
Ultimately it is a business. We all love the profession, but if you don't make money at it then there's no point. You can cut your margins a little and give them some more money, but what have they done to earn it?
Have they streamlined any processes to save time/money? Have they found innovative ways to increase productivity?
Since they're not interested in contributing to the profession have they at least contributed in a business sense? I have always felt that I should be able to demonstrate why I should get a raise before I ask for one. My reasons have always been either for advancing my knowledge and abilities or by contributing to the business in some way.
That's just not how we do things in this part of the world. Maybe it's because we don't have thousands of potential replacements waiting in the wings. Maybe it's because we wouldn't want to be treated that way. Maybe...........
Bottom line is that loyalty is an extremely valuable trait.
It's not a new problem:
paden cash = Mr. Fezziwig
Dan Patterson = Ebenezer Scrooge
It's not limited to unlicensed people. I'm now basically at the top of my pay grade. The only raise I'm likely to see for the rest of my career is an inflation adjustment.
FWIW, I prefer bonuses in good years over top salary and early layoff when the downturn happens.
Just be honest with your guys, and let them know they are probably, or are, at the top of their pay scale.
However, if you want to keep them coming with more money making potential, offer them a stake in marketing, a percentage of all projects where they are referred.
The ugly truth of being able to replace long term employees with younger and cheaper help applies to many moire industries than just surveying. On a regular basis, I hear of the longer term employee being let go in preference of the young one who costs significantly less .
Many times, the business model likely does not suffer significantly. In other cases, the business model does seem to get disrupted. The new person doesn't know procedure and doesn't get trained well if at all. The business can be harmed by this as we all know.
With the suffering job market for the past number of years, many people, myself included, have had to undercut their own salaries in order to find work. Many companies are still not giving many raises, even to "good employees", hence employee salaries have remained pretty much stagnate for many years now. But that does not stop the raising cost of living for things like utilities, food, health insurance, etc from going up leaving people such as me deeper in the proverbial hole each and every year.
Do I have a solution? No. I'm just saying......
AlanG, post: 344489, member: 7306 wrote: It's not a new problem:
paden cash = Mr. Fezziwig
Dan Patterson = Ebenezer Scrooge
I'm not advocating firing/replacing them. I just don't like the argument of "I should get a raise just because I want one..." You should be able to demonstrate why you should get one.
Then again, being reliable and putting a lot of time in is one reason to get a raise. You also want to be able to attract quality employees.
IÛªm in the same boat Paden. Four of my employees have been with me for the whole 27 years I have been in business. When I started, and still continue, I paid 100% of their medical insurance (PPO). Needless to say we all know about rising medical premiums. My ÛÏoldestÛ employeeÛªs monthly premium exceeds $1K/month. However their performance in the field is second to none and they generate (almost) enough income to offset the expense. I think I run a surveying company for aging surveyors. 😉
The salary scale/raises still drives me crazy after all these years, sigh! But , at least to me, itÛªs still enjoyable and fun(sometimes).
IÛªm in the same boat Paden. Four of my employees have been with me for the whole 27 years I have been in business. When I started, and still continue, I paid 100% of their medical insurance (PPO). Needless to say we all know about rising medical premiums. My ÛÏoldestÛ employeeÛªs monthly premium exceeds $1K/month. However their performance in the field is second to none and they generate (almost) enough income to offset the expense. I think I run a surveying company for aging surveyors. 😉
The salary scale/raises still drives me crazy after all these years, sigh! But , at least to me, itÛªs still enjoyable and fun(sometimes).
It is very important during this short life to try to have fun.
Being on the cusp of geezerdom, I am very thankful that I have been running my own operation for nearly 30 years. There is no golden parachute to save me if something prevents me from doing what I do (horrible disease/illness/crippling auto accident) but no one is going to call me into their office one day to tell me I'm being put out to pasture. There is good and bad in all things. One must hope the good will compensate for the bad.
My approach to many relationships revolves around the thought that if you cooperate with me I will cooperate with you. Respect for respect. Loyalty for loyalty. I'll bend some if you'll bend some, as well. Dollars are just green pieces of paper.
Thanks for the replies. Most everybody pretty much feels the same way as me.
Dan mentioned something about them not wanting to 'contribute to the profession', and I would like to say something about that. A couple of years ago Oklahoma got rid of "experience only" as a requirement for licensure. No longer can someone without higher education be accepted for examination. While I personally don't like that, I saw the writing on the wall years ago. I have offered to pay for night and on-line classes to all my employees if they feel the need to obtain the education to qualify for examination. While none have taken that opportunity, I don't see that as anything negative.
Our industry's foundation is built upon personnel that are not (and may never be) licensed professionals. I could not operate as well as I do without all of their help. They are truly my boots on the ground. Loyalty and friendship is a big plus in my book also.
I don't think I'll be letting anybody go anytime soon....just talking out loud. |-)
How much is it worth to look at a job, adn know how long it will take your well known field crew?
How much is the level of trust worth?
What value do you place on the ability to lay your head on the pillow at night, and not worry about what your inexperienced field crew did?
Those are difficult intangibles, but are not to be taken lightly.
And I like the bonus idea. Or, perhaps, if you are getting old enough it is time to plan your own departure, and start making some of them owners in some way, then they can see your pain.
I don't believe this issue you have pointed out is in any way unique to our industry. When I've run into such ceilings my conclusion has been that ultimately only I am responsible for my compensation and if better opportunities lie else where, then it is up to me to invest in myself and seek those opportunities out. It's just the nature of the beast and the limiting factor of being paid for one's time. I'm of the opinion that an honest and frank conversation with your staff seeking raises is likely in order before it undermines the good faith of those working relationships.
Personally, I feel I'm trapped and going backwards in a dead-end job.
In the past three years inflation has eroded my salary by about $2.5k.
The firm has lifted its charge out rates at least twice, but hasn't seen fit to pass anything on to the employees.
I think you can imagine how the staff morale is here...
[sarcasm]You could just lay them off 8 days short of their anniversary dates so you don't have to pay them another round of annual vacation pay.[/sarcasm]
Seriously though, that is how my previous job ended.
I understand that this is a business and I would do what I could to keep top talent. Bonuses are one way they could share in the company's success. Other ideas are additional vacation or some flex time. Maybe your rates are just too low. Maybe your idea of where is the top of the pay scale are not accurate. I don't know your situation, only you do. Be truly honest with yourself.
I don't view that cheaper is always better. Don't underestimate the cost of finding new good employees. Sure it isn't that hard to find someone, but quality people are few and far between. The grass in not always greener on the other side.
I hear a lot of complaining on this board and in the local community that good help is becoming increasingly hard to find. People are not flocking to become surveyors. Do you think this may have something to do with wages not keeping up with the cost of living.
I agree with williwaw, have an honest conversation with them. If they have hit their ceiling, tell them so they know or they can look elsewhere. I am looking at getting a $1/hour raise next year for the first time in 10 years. I've gotten bonuses most of those years but after a while they don't add up to cost of inflation over time. I would have much rather been told my wages were not going to change much in the future.
