I am working doing site layout for a concrete and dirtwork company. I am about to start on my associates degree for surveying technology, but I'm not licensed for boundry in any way. I lay everything out with a steel tape and a theodolite, so I usually shoot some hubs in on the property line to turn off of. I always stake them as a 'temporary line' with nothing else on the stake. After I'm done doing what I'm doing I pull the hubs and stakes off the boundry. I have a plumber that wants me to leave the hubs on the boundry line so he can pull off of them. Am I opening myself up to liability or trouble by leaving them up? I don't want to cause any neighbor fistfights or anything over what isn't even a legal line. I don't mind helping someone out, but I don't want to get bit.
You need to don your flack jacket in 3..2...1....
Let me relate an incident that happened to a young friend of mine a number of years ago. Although he wasn't licensed, he was working for a licensed firm and technically under the supervision of a licensed individual. His niche was mainly construction layout and he was good at it. The LS in the office would generally "wave" his hand over my friend's calcs and layout procedures. As the job progressed, the LS had little "day to day" input on what was transpiring on the job. One job in particular was a large shopping mall parking area. Lots of grade stakes and subgrade and bluetopping and my buddy was riding herd on the whole mess like a champ for a good 9 or 10 months.
The crew was actually out there to prepare an as-built on the paving. In the parking area there were a number of 15' wide curb surrounded islands that some ran the entire length of the parking area, some 500'. A landscape company was out there and asked him to stake the shrubs that were proposed to be in these islands. Although there was actually no dimensions on the site plan, the shrubs were shown and had a 50' distance marked 'typical' between them.
He slapped his scale on the plans and within a few minutes had a number of pin flags running down the center of the islands and the landscape contractor was happy....until he hit a buried electric primary. Nobody was seriously injured, but somebody had to pay for the damages. Guess who got stuck for the bill? The survey outfit. Just by doing a favor for someone on the job site.
Would the landscape crew still have hit the primary if my friend hadn't staked the shrubs? Most likely. But since the landscaper was working off of a 'staked layout' provided by the surveyor, the survey firm had to foot the bill for repairs.
Long story short: Don't stake a thing that doesn't have any dimensions on the plans and don't stake anything for anybody else other than your contractual client.
Awelton85, post: 345668, member: 10798 wrote: I am working doing site layout for a concrete and dirtwork company. I am about to start on my associates degree for surveying technology, but I'm not licensed for boundry in any way. I lay everything out with a steel tape and a theodolite, so I usually shoot some hubs in on the property line to turn off of. I always stake them as a 'temporary line' with nothing else on the stake. After I'm done doing what I'm doing I pull the hubs and stakes off the boundry. I have a plumber that wants me to leave the hubs on the boundry line so he can pull off of them. Am I opening myself up to liability or trouble by leaving them up? I don't want to cause any neighbor fistfights or anything over what isn't even a legal line. I don't mind helping someone out, but I don't want to get bit.
The question to ask is what if something went wrong?
If someone later said "that's where the plumber told me the line was", that will only get the listener to roll their eyes. But if they said "that's where the surveyor marked the line".....they will be taking a hard look right @ you. It's not a matter of whether your hubs are in the right or wrong place, but mainly a matter of who they go after if problems occur later (even if "correctly-placed" hubs were misused)
The HUGE question is: How do you know for certain that you are on the true boundary line?
That is not part of your function. That is the role of the licensed land surveyor. Unless a licensed land surveyor has "anointed" said markers as being on the true boundary line you are playing with fire. As you do not have a license and are merely an employee of a contractor you should not be making any assumptions relative to what does or does not constitute a boundary.
That is what I was trying to convey. A licensed surveyor always sets the corners, I'm just shooting a line from point a to point b. That is also why I mark the stakes simply as a temporary line, as I have no business marking anything as a boundry. I only set hubs on my imaginary line as a reference for myself. I was just wondering who's ass it would be if someone were to use my hubs and mess something up.
paden cash, post: 345683, member: 20 wrote: Let me relate an incident that happened to a young friend of mine a number of years ago. Although he wasn't licensed, he was working for a licensed firm and technically under the supervision of a licensed individual. His niche was mainly construction layout and he was good at it. The LS in the office would generally "wave" his hand over my friend's calcs and layout procedures. As the job progressed, the LS had little "day to day" input on what was transpiring on the job. One job in particular was a large shopping mall parking area. Lots of grade stakes and subgrade and bluetopping and my buddy was riding herd on the whole mess like a champ for a good 9 or 10 months.
The crew was actually out there to prepare an as-built on the paving. In the parking area there were a number of 15' wide curb surrounded islands that some ran the entire length of the parking area, some 500'. A landscape company was out there and asked him to stake the shrubs that were proposed to be in these islands. Although there was actually no dimensions on the site plan, the shrubs were shown and had a 50' distance marked 'typical' between them.
He slapped his scale on the plans and within a few minutes had a number of pin flags running down the center of the islands and the landscape contractor was happy....until he hit a buried electric primary. Nobody was seriously injured, but somebody had to pay for the damages. Guess who got stuck for the bill? The survey outfit. Just by doing a favor for someone on the job site.
Would the landscape crew still have hit the primary if my friend hadn't staked the shrubs? Most likely. But since the landscaper was working off of a 'staked layout' provided by the surveyor, the survey firm had to foot the bill for repairs.
Long story short: Don't stake a thing that doesn't have any dimensions on the plans and don't stake anything for anybody else other than your contractual client.
Point taken. I really didn't feel comfortable doing it anyway, now I really don't.
Tom Adams, post: 345686, member: 7285 wrote: The question to ask is what if something went wrong?
If someone later said "that's where the plumber told me the line was", that will only get the listener to roll their eyes. But if they said "that's where the surveyor marked the line".....they will be taking a hard look right @ you. It's not a matter of whether your hubs are in the right or wrong place, but mainly a matter of who they go after if problems occur later (even if "correctly-placed" hubs were misused)
I gotcha. Thanks for the answer.
In Texas what you do requires having a license.
Got a call last week about the location of a concrete monument so the COE could see how far a new sewer station had been built across boundary and on FEE land.
An architect had contacted me 18mos ago for a price to take some grades around a local resort to put in a clear water station for them. He did not like my pricing so did it without a surveyor. Bottom line, he now has to spend approximately $15k of his own money to relocate the works and replan his errors.
A Harris, post: 345739, member: 81 wrote: In Texas what you do requires having a license.
Got a call last week about the location of a concrete monument so the COE could see how far a new sewer station had been built across boundary and on FEE land.
An architect had contacted me 18mos ago for a price to take some grades around a local resort to put in a clear water station for them. He did not like my pricing so did it without a surveyor. Bottom line, he now has to spend approximately $15k of his own money to relocate the works and replan his errors.
I really think what I do should require a license. There are a lot of people doing it that have absolutely no idea what they are doing. Last month we took a job over because the previous contractors missed the anchor bolts by 3 inches and then skipped town. I'm excited about going to school so I can start to work on getting licensed. I have been doing this for 10 years and I take a lot of pride in what I do. I learned what I know from an old dusty PLS that had been surveying for 50 years. He is gone now, but I am forever grateful that he decided to teach me. It took me a few years to realize why he was so particular about things, but I'm glad to have learned the way I did. The only governing body over the job I do in my state myself and my standards, but I think it should be a licensed position just as much as a boundry surveyor is.
State licensing boards have authority over individuals engaging in licensed activities. Some, but not all have authority over the organizations. That means from a licensing standpoint, it's your butt on the line, not your boss' and not the company's. If a citation for unlicensed practice is issued, it will be issued to you. Even if the company ponies up the $ to pay the citation fine, the blemish is on your record, which will be a problem if you apply for a license in the future.
If something were to go wrong on the job, from a civil standpoint, the company is the contract party and has the deeper pockets, so you probably wouldn't end up with a judgment against you personally (assuming that you are a direct employee and not a contract employee). But from a licensing standpoint, in addition to whatever fine might come of unlicensed practice, you may also be found to have acted both negligently and/or incompetently, which can add considerably to the administrative fines and may preclude you from ever being able to become licensed.
It seems that many large construction companies have "layout" crews but no licensed surveyors, are only vaguely aware of the laws defining what tasks must be done or supervised by a licensed surveyor, and constantly push the envelope of any grey area that may exist between allowable unlicensed activities and licensed activities. It behooves you to become very familiar with those laws and to have a very clear understanding of where the line between activities that do or do not require a license is.
Awelton85, post: 345694, member: 10798 wrote: That is what I was trying to convey. A licensed surveyor always sets the corners, I'm just shooting a line from point a to point b. That is also why I mark the stakes simply as a temporary line, as I have no business marking anything as a boundry. I only set hubs on my imaginary line as a reference for myself. I was just wondering who's ass it would be if someone were to use my hubs and mess something up.
Ya if I were you i wouldn't place any hubs anywhere near the boundary, temporary or not. Bc if someone uses them bc they saw you putting them in using surveying equipment, you will be held as acting negligible.
Keep em away from the boundaries or better yet clearly mark them as not boundary markers so they are not mistaken.
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