AI Assistant
Notifications
Clear all

How do you measure this distance?

16 Posts
12 Users
0 Reactions
1,743 Views
makerofmaps
(@makerofmaps)
Posts: 560
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I am reading a new alcohol ordinace in our County and it has the following?
[INDENT]

In special recognition of the need to police and the difficulty in providing emergency services to remote areas of the county, no license shall be issued for the sale of distilled spirits for on-premises consumption except for locations within two miles from an exit or entrance ramp to an interstate highway

For purposes of this section, distance shall be measured by the most direct route of travel on the ground and shall be measured in the following manner:

(1) In a straight line from the front door of the structure from which Alcoholic Beverages are sold or offered for sale.

(2) To the nearest property line of the real property being used for church, school, educational purposes, or interstate exit or entrance ramp.
[/INDENT]

My direct route of travel would be through the woods in a straight line as I could walk it. What say you?
[INDENT][/INDENT]


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 11:46 am
eapls2708
(@eapls2708)
Posts: 1907
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I'm pretty sure they mean vehicular or pedestrian traffic within public road rights of way.


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 11:50 am
Warren Smith
(@warren-smith)
Posts: 830
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Another method would be the stagger route - through the woods or not.


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 11:57 am
Norm
 Norm
(@norm)
Posts: 1331
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

To me straight line and Alcoholic Beverages are sold don't seem to belong in the same sentence.


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 11:59 am
a-harris
(@a-harris)
Posts: 8759
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

The problem with that rule is that once a location if made for a liquor store, a church can setup residence within that zone and bounce the liquor store out of the neighborhood.

The measurement begins at the entrance of the liquor source and goes along a line perpendicular to the highway to the r/w line.
Then the next portion is measured along the r/w line to the restriction point.


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 11:59 am

makerofmaps
(@makerofmaps)
Posts: 560
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I'm thinking a straight line because thats the only way it could be "in a straight from the front door". Otherwise it would be crooked along a highway.


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:00 pm
paden-cash
(@paden-cash)
Posts: 11086
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I use to work near a small town that was part of the OKC metro area. The town had been originally founded in the late 19th. century by a religious group. The church (and a college) survived the years and still had a good grip on local laws. No tobacco, alcohol (and get this) or magazines of any kind were allowed to be retailed within the original town site. They had similar ordinances prohibiting retail of the banned items within so many feet of a school or church. The verbiage in the ordinances was similarly vague in a lot of aspects.

The surveyor I worked for at the time had a unique theory about the wording: He felt it was meant to be ambiguous. Any time someone made an application and the zoning folks couldn't apply the rules in a distinct manner it had to go before the council for them to vote on it. So basically with ambiguous rules the city could (at their whim) approve or deny ANY of the applications.


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:08 pm
makerofmaps
(@makerofmaps)
Posts: 560
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Our local online paper has written a good story on the whole passage of this ordinance. Its pretty funny. https://www.dadeplanet.com/single-post/2017/04/10/Whats-A-Newspaper-to-Do-When-The-County-Commission-Turns-Into-Caligula


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:39 pm
Jim in AZ
(@jim-in-az)
Posts: 3374
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I've been involved in these issues. We once found the new liquor store to be 9" too close to a 100-yr old church. The liquor store appealed to the State for a variance. The church did not protest, so the State granted them a variance.

The other was just a few years ago. The City Inspector was performing his final inspection of a new Walgreen's and was preparing to sign the Certificate of Occupancy when he looked up. There, just up the street was a church! It had been there for years, but this was the first time anyone had thought about it. The liquor department within the store was 13 feet too close to the church. It was moved to the other side of the store overnight and Walgreen's opened the next day.

Maker, that requirement is ambiguous. The best attorney will determine it's meaning...


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:39 pm
makerofmaps
(@makerofmaps)
Posts: 560
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Here is a link to the full ordinance. https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjM32AtybdkzhEg3LnpscM8UEruW


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:40 pm

makerofmaps
(@makerofmaps)
Posts: 560
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I used to have to do wet permit surveys years ago. This was before the days of GPS. They had an along the sidewalk requirement for schools or churchs and a straightline for the other I couldn't remember. And we had to locate the corners of various other retailers and list the permits. The best were the strip clubs. It always took a while getting their info from their permit for some reason lol. Those where the easiest and fun surveys back in the days.


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:45 pm
jsavage977
(@jsavage977)
Posts: 43
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Just did one here in Utah. 600ft. From the nearest property corner perpendicuar to the right of way, then along the right of way, crossing the road at 90 degrees and then to the next nearest property corner. Some area require you to measure to the crosswalks at the nearest intersection if it does cross a road.


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 4:50 pm
holy-cow
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25672
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

[USER=9079]@makerofmaps[/USER]

That two miles from an interstate on/off ramp would eliminate a raft of counties in my state as there are very few interstates here. I'm assuming they mean interstate with a capital "I".


 
Posted : April 11, 2017 5:25 pm
billvhill
(@billvhill)
Posts: 399
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I did one with similar language minus the off and on ramps, the distance was close. I had measured from the front door to the center of the right traveling lane followed the lane to an intersection and continued on the right lane to the church boundary. The church argued that the distance would be shorter if a person was walking, but lost the argument because there was no sidewalk.

I think the route would be vehicular if the on an off ramps are mentioned and use the centerline of the shortest traveling lanes
Just my .02


 
Posted : April 12, 2017 6:50 pm
Larry Best
(@larry-best)
Posts: 760
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

There's a similar law here concerning bars and schools. But it doesn't matter how you measure it when an ex-senator opens a bar across the street from the school.


 
Posted : April 13, 2017 6:26 am

Kris Morgan
(@kris-morgan)
Posts: 3855
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

makerofmaps, post: 422953, member: 9079 wrote: I am reading a new alcohol ordinace in our County and it has the following?
[INDENT]

In special recognition of the need to police and the difficulty in providing emergency services to remote areas of the county, no license shall be issued for the sale of distilled spirits for on-premises consumption except for locations within two miles from an exit or entrance ramp to an interstate highway

For purposes of this section, distance shall be measured by the most direct route of travel on the ground and shall be measured in the following manner:

(1) In a straight line from the front door of the structure from which Alcoholic Beverages are sold or offered for sale.

(2) To the nearest property line of the real property being used for church, school, educational purposes, or interstate exit or entrance ramp.
[/INDENT]

My direct route of travel would be through the woods in a straight line as I could walk it. What say you?
[INDENT][/INDENT]

We did lots of these in 07 and 08. TABC had a much more definitive method than yours but similar to yours. Schools were from property line to property line and churches are from the front door of the beer joint, perpendicular to the curb, to the curb, down the curb and street to a point perpendicular to the church house door, then to the church house door.


 
Posted : April 13, 2017 6:31 am