I agreed to do a small but somewhat complicated subdivision for a new client, bit of a whackadoo but he seemed harmless enough. There were some title issues involved not to mention several adjoining surveys, multiple easements, prescriptive road right of way and land exchanges involved. It took a couple of months of wrangling to get to the point where the platting authority would agree to begin the review process. I don't have the first review back in my hands three days and the client calls, mind you this is the busiest time of the year, and wants to know why his project is not complete and reads me the riot act accusing me of dragging my feet, telling me that I'm costing him a boat load of money. It frankly left me feeling seriously pissed off after all the hoops I'd jumped through for him. Would I be within my right to added an additional 'irritation fee' to his invoice? Of course I won't call it that. I'll come up with something a little more creative. I have a good mind to dump him as a client. His expectations are completely unrealistic and he has questioned my motives, which is what really got under my skin. :-@
Rant over. Carry on.
I let clients like that come in and pay while they pick up the final copies so they can deliver to the assorted agencies.
... and he has questioned my motives ...QUOTE wrote:
I believe exceptional fees for exceptional people is merited. Also, I love Mr.Harris' response to the normal client irritations. However, when they question my integrity the relationship is over unless it's contractually or financially impossible to divorce the client. Impossible is a real high bar.
Steve
Aloha, Williwaw:
I think that is why most company as an entry as "overhead and profit." The irritation are included in that 🙂
On a serious note...I am sorry you had to go through this!
Aloha
I bill a conference line item. If [they] call to complain or otherwise waste my time with frivolity, I bill them. Full payment is due at delivery.
https://surveyorconnect.com/threads/best-day-or-worst.322172/
YES increase your fees, get paid, fire the client, walk away, post haste, your sanity is valuable here.
Some people seem to enjoy being disagreeable as often and as mightily as possible. You have found one of those lulu's. Staying calm is the challenge. This idiot actually believes that bullying tactics will produce results. Not understanding what is going on is one thing, being a jerk is another.
Good luck.
"Can a charge a client an "irritation fee"?
You bet. I'm surprised you're not doing that already. I've got several personally obtuse clients that feel the need to drop in unexpected with a bag o' crud..or call me at 4:30 of an afternoon and need me to get them something by the next day. I charge the peewaddin out of them. I suspect the reason they keep coming back is because I'm the only one they've found that will put up with their obnoxious crap. I'm friendly, polite and professional to all my clients, even the a-holes. If any of these trouble-makers ever ask me why Joe Blow gets a better deal from me...I'll just have to tell them it's because I like the other guy.
Be honest with your clients. Charge them whatever you feel is proper, but be honest. B-)
Putting up with someone who is demanding or otherwise annoying is one thing, and if that behavior begins impacting other work or takes an inordinate amount of time, I would come up with a charge such as for "outside of scope conference", "emergency scheduling fee" or "expediting fee", and let them know that you will need to begin charging for such things.
If they choose to attack my integrity, then they get one opportunity to retract. If they don't take that opportunity, or if it happens again, work stops and they are billed for all efforts to date. They get copies of any completed work product and preliminary work product will be forwarded to the next surveyor unfortunate enough to agree to complete the project. There's no reason to put up with that crap.
Only one time did a client make a direct accusation. I was at their house going over some preliminary findings relative to a fence that they thought should be their property line. After telling them that I had insufficient evidence to hold the fence, the wife accused me of being bought off by her neighbor. I rolled up my maps and as I got up to leave, told them that their deposit would just about cover my efforts to date and that I would send them a final invoice reflecting that. They backpedaled really fast.
One other time, a client merely insinuated, but didn't go so far as to accuse that I was ripping them off when the County required that they obtain an aerial survey for their project (overkill, but the county wasn't budging. It was either get the aerial or abandon the project). After getting client approval and getting it done, I passed on only the direct cost of the aerial mapping without any markup or additional charges on my part. The client implied that I pulled a bait and switch to increase my fee. We terminated the contract by mutual agreement. 8 years later and they never got their project completed. I guess all the other surveyors in the area were out to rip them off as well.
In CA, if you've gotten to a certain point in a boundary survey and encounter conditions that require that a record of survey be filed, the LS is legally responsible for filing that map regardless of whether the contract has been terminated. The contract I used obligated the client to pay for statutorily required services and did not allow for termination of that portion of the contract. Fortunately, I never had to invoke that part of my contract. If I found myself in that position, I would stop taking calls from that client, all of my communication to that client would be in writing, and I would file an intent to lien prior to or at the time of submitting the map to ensure final payment.
I bill it under QA/QC. I've got a couple clients that get a healthy QA/QC charge right from the get go because past history does foretell future performance in their cases.
eapls2706. That retraction idea is great. Bill them give them the work to do date and let them know that you will provide the other surveyor with all of the information you have acquired.
And then do so, provide the other surveyor with the information they have just taken on a problem client, and make sure they are not given any breaks because of work you have already done 🙂 lol
I just don't think this client realizes he'll need to start all over with a new surveyor and I'm not about to turn over my survey data until I'm paid in full, which I'm not. He didn't pay his last invoice and his next will state that until he is all paid up, all work will cease. Kind of sad really. I don't think this fellow is too sharp. I'd most likely have the request for the mylar and monuments in the ground in the next thirty days or so and he would be home free. Instead he chose to shoot his horse just short of the finish line. Kind of sad once I get over his belligerence and stupidity, but I can only explain the reality to him, I can't make him accept it. In either case, the cost of me finishing this project for him just went up. Several hours of QA/QC just got added to his new invoice, and still he would be getting a bargain. What's that Ron White quote? 'You can't fix stupid?'
Williwaw, post: 323948, member: 7066 wrote: Would I be within my right to added an additional 'irritation fee' to his invoice?
This seems to me like it should be inclusive in all proposals. 🙂
Williwaw, post: 323948, member: 7066 wrote: I agreed to do a small but somewhat complicated subdivision for a new client, bit of a whackadoo but he seemed harmless enough. There were some title issues involved not to mention several adjoining surveys, multiple easements, prescriptive road right of way and land exchanges involved. It took a couple of months of wrangling to get to the point where the platting authority would agree to begin the review process. I don't have the first review back in my hands three days and the client calls, mind you this is the busiest time of the year, and wants to know why his project is not complete and reads me the riot act accusing me of dragging my feet, telling me that I'm costing him a boat load of money. It frankly left me feeling seriously pissed off after all the hoops I'd jumped through for him. Would I be within my right to added an additional 'irritation fee' to his invoice? Of course I won't call it that. I'll come up with something a little more creative. I have a good mind to dump him as a client. His expectations are completely unrealistic and he has questioned my motives, which is what really got under my skin. :-@
Rant over. Carry on.
I don't have an irritation fee. I do, however, have an a$$h0le tax that I use when necessary. The interesting thing about that tax is that it's a progressive, silent tax.
paden cash, post: 323966, member: 20 wrote: "Can a charge a client an "irritation fee"?
If any of these trouble-makers ever ask me why Joe Blow gets a better deal from me...I'll just have to tell them it's because I like the other guy.
I had a guy who was going to be a terrible client, come in over and over and finally didn't like the price and walked away. It was going to be a tough part of downtown and we were hungry, so the price wasn't all that bad, but I hate paying to work. I digress. Anyway, this yahoo starts trying to extort the asian neighbor out of 8 feet of land. My father has a soft spot in his heart for folks from Southeast Asia from his time there in 1968 and 1969. Anyway, he quotes the guy a VERY good price to survey the adjoining property.
We end up on site and the butthole next door comes out and gets in my face about the difference in price (which I hadn't done). We went from nice and professional to "boy, you done screwed up" in about 10 seconds. His common law wife, a recently disbarred attorney, came running at me (while he was running away from me) and got in the middle and he was like a little dog barking from behind her.
Well, I called the cops, and let my friends know that (A) His grass was too tall (B) He had a dangerous breed dog not behind a fence or on a chain (C) Was Trespassing, and a few others (I was a city councilman when this happened).
Within about 5 minutes, he had several tickets and was licking his wounds, but NEVER came back out and got in my face again. 🙂
Any story with "a recently disbarred attorney" is a good story.
Steve
I have had several of these clients. Professionally you can't drag your feet, but you can get rid of them after the project is done if you're mid stream with a contract. If you're just getting paid by the hour without a detailed contract, dump him and wish him good luck. I have seen clients in Alaska go to the board for unprofessional conduct so be careful.
