I am new to surveying and working through a practical field situation at my own house.
The survey calls for a 1/2" rebar at the southwest corner of my lot. I have not found the rebar yet, but the corner area is occupied by fence posts and concrete. There is a galvanized fence post set in concrete near the expected corner, and another nearby chain link fence post within a few inches on the neighbor’s side. I also see orange flagging on the opposite side of the fence.
For those with field experience:
- When a called rebar falls where a fence post/concrete is located, do you commonly find that the rebar was encased, covered, disturbed, or removed during fence installation?
- Have you had luck finding iron rods just beside or below concrete fence post footings?
- Do fence installers typically avoid existing rebars/monuments, pull them, encase them, or just set posts wherever the fence line is laid out?
- What practical search methods do you use in this situation before concluding the called monument is missing or disturbed?
- Would you probe/dig around the concrete footing, use a locator, search offsets, or look for nearby witness evidence first?
For context, I have a background in construction and engineering, but I am new to surveying and working hard to learn proper field procedure while pursuing eventual RPLS licensure in Texas. I do work with an RPLS and understand that boundary determinations require the judgment of a licensed surveyor. I just did not want to bother him with what may be a simple field question, so I appreciate anyone willing to share practical experience.
This is my own property, and I am not trying to make or certify a boundary determination. I am asking from a practical field-learning perspective.
Any advice from those who have dealt with fence posts/concrete at called corner monuments would be appreciated.
You have brought up a very common scenario. Every situation can be different. Typically, I would search at other lot corners for some confirmation as to the true corner. It might be several feet away
Got it. I will continue my search. My neighbor has said it’s ok for me to look on his side.
Is it possible to upload pics on here? I have pictures of the posts and a photo I took of my TSC710 screen - I’m using a R980
- When a called rebar falls where a fence post/concrete is located, do you commonly find that the rebar was encased, covered, disturbed, or removed during fence installation?
Probably removed.
- Have you had luck finding iron rods just beside or below concrete fence post footings?
Occasionally whoever put the post in stabs the rebar back in next to it which I think causes way more problems than helps.
- Do fence installers typically avoid existing rebars/monuments, pull them, encase them, or just set posts wherever the fence line is laid out?
Don't know, I've never talked to a fence installer.
- What practical search methods do you use in this situation before concluding the called monument is missing or disturbed?
I go tie the easy monuments first and leave something like this for last.
- Would you probe/dig around the concrete footing, use a locator, search offsets, or look for nearby witness evidence first?
If you have the other monuments tied you can use the deed/plat or previous surveys to do some calcs for the location of that corner and then stake it out to see where it lands. If the calc point lands in a post or footing then there's probably a decent chance it got blown out during the fence install.
You should still look and stab around with a garden spade of course but if the fence is metal and you're using a metal detector it can be a real pain. Eventually if you can't find a monument you have to make the decision that it's been obliterated.
Once you are fairly certain where the rebar is or was, get out a shovel and dig. Attached is a photo of an ACP from decades ago, one foot down and over from a recent nail and disk set by a doofus surveyor who couldn't be bothered looking first. Those monuments are there to be found but you have to actually dig and look.
Ran onto proof today of one of the stupid things done by clients. A family I know split off a strange tract no more than three months ago. That tract went to a daughter of the old couple. Now, they have had the same surveyors go out to cut off another tract for a step-grandson through their son. Two of the first tract corners are now also the corners of this second tract. They are out of the middle of nowhere. Guess what. There are new wooden corner posts centered somewhat precisely where the bars were set and a proper fence built on line. The corner points fall very close to the centers of those two posts.
Some quicky-dicky survey companies would have set new bars at, say, the south side of the posts and created a mathematical gap between the two tracts when none was intended.
The really fun ones are the back corners that fall at the intersection of 4 head high wood privacy fences ready to fall over and intersect so that the corner falls somewhere in the gap of no-man's land that can only be accessed by breaking through one of them, and not to forget the large barking dogs in two of the yards and blacked out windows on the rest with signs suggesting the last surveyor to try is buried somewhere nearby.
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
With the tilt rods I don't get hosed by fences too much anymore but trees still ruin all of the fun. Man I hate setting up a robot just to shoot 1 or 2 points...
Back in the early 1980s, another surveyor shared with me that he had been run off a job by the client, with whom he had history on several previous survey projects. This was the first time with this client since they had acquired a total station. Apparently, the client had made a little research project of his own to learn how they worked and why they were so wonderful AND SAVE A BOATLOAD OF MONEY. The purpose of the project was to locate the east line of the southeast quarter of the section and set numerous markers on line. This was a somewhat rare case of there being no county road occupying that line AND FOR GOOD REASON. A small slough ran along the entire length of the half mile with a dozen twists and turns that were totally overgrown with small trees, medium trees, large cottonwood trees that had been there since Jesus walked the Earth, blackberry bushes, poison ivy everywhere, etc., etc. The client insisted on observing the field work. When he arrived the crew had already dug up the southeast section corner in the east/west road and were moving into an open field about 100 feet to the east and maybe 400 feet to the north to set up on the first turning point before traversing the half mile distance to the north. The client was upset before he got out of his truck. He had noticed the hole in the road where th southeast corner monument had been found. He demanded an explanation of why they weren't setting up there and then shooting straight down the line. His research had testimonials from surveyors bragging as how they could shot straight through the trees. He honestly believed that the beam would shoot straight through tree trunks of multiple trees, somehow. Then the beam would return from the prism back to the total station giving you the total distance and alignment of the section line in one half mile shot. All you had to do then was walk the line back and set the requested line markers. One to two hours of work, total.
I had a similar experience, one of my section lines ran off a ridge into bottom land and I needed to stake line through it. I staked line to the break off of the ridge. there was a good set up spot to the south of line and I put a random there. We set up there and my crew went into the trees and I could see into the trees from the south since they mostly terminated south of the section line. While I was set up on the ridge the neighbor came by and said I had to set up online since he had worked on a survey crew and they never set up off line. He was quite upset about it.
I once worked under a party chief with what might be called a rigid cast of mind. This was about 1974, and I was running a transit. He ordered me to set up on a section monument on the centerline of a two-lane blacktop road.
The terrain was hilly and there wasn't much sight distance on the road. There was a lot of construction in the area and a good deal of heavy equipment was moving on the road. I refused to set up there.
While the PC and I were arguing, a truck came barreling over the hill pulling a 12-foot-wide sheepfoot roller on a lowboy. Had I been set up at that moment, I would have been smeared across the pavement like a bug on a windshield. The PC was unimpressed. He insisted we return to the office, where the boss backed me up. We ended up offsetting the section line onto the shoulder.