Hi! I posted on this site a few years ago, and one of the surveyors helped me out so much. He said to measure the distance between my markers to see if it was the correct footage which it was. However, I went one step further when I saw new cement patch under the other marker and recalled that one being different in relation to a fence we built 10+ yrs ago.. Sure enough, on the other side, measured between my other neighbors pins and it was was off by at least 4 inches taking away from his property due to the error. I called our city councilman’s office.I knew the former owner on one side had moved the marker to increase the width of his driveway for his monster truck. It had been a missing marker that suddenly reappeared and the neighbor (a contractor) told me I could not use the area. That meant, I have been stuck paying 6k a year on taxes with inability to improve my driveway.
City of LA rep looked up the plot map when I told them about measurement issue. They agreed my property was even more than 4” beyond on the driveway side. Question is who can help me fix this without having to do another survey? I had done a survey, but surveyor used the bad pin even though I told him I thought it was wrong. I see on his notes that he set the other marker himself so he measured out the 55 from the wrong spot and thus took away my neighbors inches without ever doing all the due diligence. I even have site plans that were approved for permits on this place that show the property lines and measurements are different, not same numbers .
Since then found out surveyor had been reported to the board a couple of times and he’s not answering my calls or emails for the past 5 years. He also may be retired. Do I really need to get a whole other survey now they’re even more expensive? With the city agreeing and it’s very clearly stated and shown where the lines really are— what can I do? 🙏🏽
Just love your question.
Thanks for posting. MANY surveyors have a "Loose" idea of what their tasks mean... But not a "Tight" idea... meaning, a monument moved 4" is not going to concern some of them. Although, 4" may really be a big deal. So, I suggest you find a local surveyor, who takes his work, seriously, and have a good sit down with them.
Many of the "Better Surveyors", are curiosity driven... ie, they will really want to "Get to the bottom of things". That's who you want.
And, ALL the documentation you have is going to be important... usually.
Anyway, what city are you in? What State? And, the longer a "Incorrect Monument" sits, the harder it is to move... generally. So, get a scope of the problem, get a solid solution, and ASK your surveyor for multiple "Stacked" monuments, for example, set a pipe down deep, and a smaller one inside that, and something on the surface, and maybe some concrete around that... so any funny business is easily detectable....
PS Surveyors should remove all the ambiguity they can... not make it!
Nate
...that show the property lines and measurements are different, not same numbers .
That doesn't necessarily mean anything bad. The equipment we use is very good but even the stuff we use isn't able to get the exact same measurement 10 times in a row if we measured a line that many times. It really depends on how much of a difference in the numbers.
Anyway, normally I'd say call the guy who did the first survey, but sounds like he's unresponsive. Sucks to get dinged twice for the work, but you might want to have a new guy come in and check everything.
Monuments hold a special status. When in place as originally set they will almost (some exceptions) always overrule measurements. When it's set and the plat is accepted it creates the corner. If the monument is moved or disturbed the corner remains in its original position. The big question is there proof of the move, 4" is weak evidence because most subdivisions will have monuments that far "off". I know it's not what you want to hear, but you need another survey, with a surveyor that is really good.
The other question you have to ask, is this 4" worth fighting over? I've seen some awful property disputes over something that ends up being irrelevant.
..... Since then found out surveyor had been reported to the board a couple of times and he’s not answering my calls or emails for the past 5 years.....
I guessing that you chose this one because he was the cheapest.
What would you do if you went to a doctor and then later found out that doctor was a quack? Go back to that same doctor and demand that he do better job? Not likely. First, you would find a better doctor. Then you might follow up with the doctor licensing board with your complaint about the quack. Perhaps more.
You need a better surveyor. One who will do the job right and not quick 'n dirty. One that will answer your calls. You may need an attorney. If you can prove that the neighbor moved your monument an attorney will see to it that the neighbor pays for a new survey and moves his driveway. And not one by the cheapo quick 'n dirty surveys-are-us outfit. One that is satisfactory to you.
Or, maybe, you just suspect that the monument was moved and the survey you got was a good one. I can't know which it is.
What would you do if you went to a doctor and then later found out that doctor was a quack? Go back to that same doctor and demand that he do better job?
How many times have you dealt with a landowner who insisted a bunch of monuments were wrong for some reason when they actually fit the record pretty well? I'm not saying this woman is wrong, but I wouldn't be so quick to call her first surveyor a quack.
Am I correct in reading that this is over 4" and that discrepancy is sufficient to prevent you from fully utilizing your drive way?
Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.
I'm not saying this woman is wrong, but I wouldn't be so quick to call her first surveyor a quack.
I don't believe that I did that. If I did, I apologize.
How did you measure this 4” discrepancy?
How flat is this area?
Were these the exact same called for monuments?
Was it a boundary survey you pulled this known distance from? A mortgage survey?
If it was a boundary survey you had done I wouldn’t be so quick to call his conclusion wrong just because you don’t like the result. It is our job to protect the general public, Not give you what you want.
If you really want this line measured hire a surveyor.
If you are using anything besides an EDM or know how to properly pull a chain I have a lot of doubts in your measurements. Especially when you are measuring between monuments 55’ apart.
[Admin's Note: A portion of this post has been removed due to personal attacks. Please read the Community Guidelines, which you agreed to follow when you signed up.]
I agree with William H though I think he was a bit harsh as the average landowner doesn't know enough about . If you measured between the existing boundary markers yourself, I'd be shocked if you had less than a half a foot of error in your measurement. You might be the on the wrong side of this one. For the sake of your personal wellbeing and that of others in your sphere of influence, either commission a quality survey or just let it go. Life is too short and precious to go to war over perceived slights.
@norman-oklahoma that’s funny and true. We don’t know things until we find out. People aren’t born knowing those things so of course we go for the good deals. Now that I’m older and wiser I wouldn’t have even seen his advertisement. i’m a licensed psychologist now, but when I was an educator, I learned to love the phrase “we don’t know what we don’t know”
@nate-the-surveyor hi Nate, thanks for the kind response. I tried to reply to you but I dont see it— probably somewhere on this thread accidentally put in the wrong spot. Anyway, I am in the southwest portion of Los Angeles, California . There is so much more complexity to what I had originally written that I can understand why other people are taking it to be petty on my end. nothing of the sort it’s more about the middle and back of the property, more than 4” but that front corner pin being off makes it awkward so I’m getting another survey. It should be all figured out soon. There are no easements . I already did that due diligence. One of the main problems with the new neighbor is they have vermin and they are piling things up and have created a living space right outside of my bedroom window in between the houses. That space has been open for 25 years most likely because the former owner knew a large portion of it is actually within my boundary lines (per city provided plot map). He was a contractor. The new people don’t know this and they are putting a bunch of things all over the space within inches and feet of my bedroom etc— like a huge shed! they now have vermin .it is just looking atrocious as well as feeling uncomfortable. I wanted to get the boundaries set so we could just all know where things really lay. I guess people do like to fight over things, but that’s not my issue. I actually sort of feel like we don’t really own land but we do have these pieces of paper to help us have our privacy. I mean, I’m the caretaker of my land and my 100-year-old Spanish colonial home. I’m trying to do it justice. If somebody doesn’t like that, I’m fine with it but I wanted to say thank you for your kind response.!
@murphy I took the advice of surveyors last year in order to do the measurement. I have a relationship with the city, so I mentioned it to them and they looked up the plot map for me. They lend compared it, and they agreed that the marker is incorrect because the plot lines are way farther to the right not just 4 inches. Thanks for asking!
I suspect that the "lines on the plot map" were GIS lines. Never mind the details of what GIS is. Just know that these lines are intended to inventory that there are lines in the area and who owns the lots, and therefore pays the property taxes. They are not intended to be locative of the boundaries. They are commonly inaccurate by several feet. Sometimes more. Do not rely on these lines to form opinions of where your boundaries are. It is a sad fact that the people at the city - cities and counties everywhere - who work with this stuff daily do not understand these basics.
I would like to remind everyone that we do have Community Guidelines. The first rule of conduct is "Be nice". I can understand bluntness, but rude personal attacks have no place here. If you don't agree with someone and want to engage in a reasonable discussion about it, please do. This is particularly important in this forum (Ask A Surveyor), because we are dealing with non-surveyor folks that may have little or no experience with surveying and are likely just seeking advice.
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