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Working Remotely as a Professional Surveyor

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(@steven-metelsky)
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I'm new to the forum, so this topic may already be discussed elsewhere. I have noticed a certain company, familiar within the industry, is offering positions where licensed surveyors can work remotely (i.e., work from home). I am curious to hear others' thoughts on this.

I can think of some obvious pros and cons. As someone who is geographically tied to an area where the salary for professional surveyors is relatively low, I have to admit there is a certain appeal.

my state law states I must be accessible at the office unless I’m in the field. I could not work remotely 100%

 

 
Posted : 03/06/2023 2:04 pm
(@chris-bouffard)
Posts: 1440
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@steven-metelsky I am a fellow NJPLS and work entirely remotely.  I am accessible to the office for anybody at any time through telephone or video conferencing.  I have six field crews working statewide and we have a system to share data back and forth in real time.  I also video conference in to the office when needed and handle my other management/minority ownership responsibilities remotely with no complications.  What's the difference between being in the field and not accessible to the office or working from a remote office with instant communications?

I can print or plot directly to my office through a secure VPN and do anything else I need to do on the company server from my home office.  Direct supervision does not mean stand over peoples shoulders.

 
Posted : 03/06/2023 2:43 pm
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25292
 

"Hey, Bob, (insert question)?"

Two seconds later, "( insert answer)".

versus

Texting--same question.

Three minutes to three hours later --same answer.

Total effort and response time is greater, which means, less likely to do this.

 
Posted : 03/06/2023 3:00 pm
(@aliquot)
Posts: 2318
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I do think it is possible in today's world with today's technology for most survey tasks to be handled remotely if the various survey personnel (field worker's, draftsmen, admin., etc.) are earnestly willing to engage in a "remote environment".

The question I would like to add to the Arkansas 90's question is this:  Is remote work allowed by your state?   

My interpretation for this question in Indiana is that though some personnel may work remotely, the lead professional accepting responsibility may not.  Here is what Indiana says (865 IAC 1-12-3-e):

"...a registered land surveyor in charge of the operation...must...have full responsible control of the survey operations...and maintain regular hours at that office...convenient for client contact and...adequate for employee supervision" (some minor editing here by me to put all the pieces together).

Would love to see other's take on their state's requirements and how they handle this issue.

Of course this will come down to the board's interpretation. Hopefully they have a good attorney available. It comes down to the definition of "office". Twenty years ago their would have been little question, but these days...

Notice also that it says "regular office hours..." not full time, so even a litteral interpretation of the phrase would allow some remote work.

The intention here is that you spend your time actively supervising and available to clients. Unless you still have clients walking in to contact you or your office technicians still work in an office setting there is no need to be physically present at a particular address to do that these days. 

Ideally this language would be modernized, but I think there is some leeway in there for the board to enforce this in a way that makes sense in today's work environment. 

 

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 10:17 am
(@dewam)
Posts: 43
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Working remotely to me means flying for hours, then riding a boat for another 8, and living on it until the job is done. The thing that this has in common with the rest of the discussion is now there is good internet. The role of the modern surveyor has changed due to changes in technology. We learn how to use the new technology or become dinosaurs. Den

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 11:51 am
 jph
(@jph)
Posts: 2332
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I've done remote in the sense that the projects and crews were far away, but we were back in the office.   

As others have said, it can be done.  And a lot of it has to do with the crew members, whether you're comfortable with their work and you have trust in them.  Developing procedures and having the crew adhere to them is key.

I'd be a bit leery stepping into a new position like that, where you're remote, and everyone else is used to their procedures, and they might be looking at you as just the stamp, and not necessarily the one who makes the rules.   

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 12:37 pm
(@chris-bouffard)
Posts: 1440
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@steven-metelsky I would like to see the statute that says that you must be accessible at the office in NJ.  I've been licensed in NJ for 30 years and have never seen that statute or have ever heard of it before your post.  The closest thing that I know of is that your license must be prominently displayed in your place of business (office), and mine is.

Even in all of my years practicing, nobody could simply walk into the office and have direct access to me.  I have met with very few clients in my office over the last ten years that could simply wander in and I accommodated them only because they were major repeat clients.  Even my phone calls get screened and answered with very few getting through to me because I have a trained staff, another LS working for me and very tight QA/QC controls.  I have complete access to all field notes, points and any other information that I have in the office and if a client needs to speak to me, I am available by video conference or phone.

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 12:55 pm
(@steven-metelsky)
Posts: 277
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@chris-bouffard

 

chris,

 

check out 13:40-9.1 and 13:40-9.2

 

(c) A licensee engaged in any of the following acts or practices shall be deemed not to have rendered the regular and effective supervision required if:

1. The regular and continuous absence from principal office premises from which professional services are rendered; except for performance of field work or presence in a field office maintained exclusively for a specific project;

This is a snippet but the statutes dive a bit deeper into it. 9.1 has a clause about adequate notice for meetings etc as well. No one should be having direct access to you at will but you should be at the principal office and not working remotely from home

 

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 1:44 pm
(@dave-karoly)
Posts: 12001
 

All office work is done in my home office since 2020. The field work is done by me in the field. With technology widely available it is easy. I very occasionally have to visit the office for research in paper files and the large format printer. We have also been doing in person monthly staff meetings which is very helpful.

If my boss calls I answer. Funny thing, with all the myriad new ways we have to communicate responsiveness has gotten much worse. That’s not the technology’s fault, though. That was happening before everyone shifted to their home offices. It’s not a WFH problem, it’s an inattentiveness issue. Remember before email the secretary would answer the phone and take a message? Of course lots of people ignored those little slips of paper.

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 2:55 pm
(@dave-karoly)
Posts: 12001
 

@chris-bouffard

 

chris,

 

check out 13:40-9.1 and 13:40-9.2

 

(c) A licensee engaged in any of the following acts or practices shall be deemed not to have rendered the regular and effective supervision required if:

1. The regular and continuous absence from principal office premises from which professional services are rendered; except for performance of field work or presence in a field office maintained exclusively for a specific project;

This is a snippet but the statutes dive a bit deeper into it. 9.1 has a clause about adequate notice for meetings etc as well. No one should be having direct access to you at will but you should be at the principal office and not working remotely from home

 

Home office is an extension of the principle office through the technological pipeline, it’s not 1960 anymore.

 

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 2:57 pm
(@chris-bouffard)
Posts: 1440
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@steven-metelsky that's great text but it, like everything else in NJ, has not evolved.  I and many others like me in this state, am/are not absent from the office.  Microsoft Teams is a great program that is on every computer in our office for live video chats, screen sharing, document sharing and other valuable applications.  It is used daily to review work in progress, answer any questions and for me to render professional opinions.

I have another LS working under me to complement the survey staff and he is in the office but the bottom line is that if anybody needs to talk to me they can catch me on Teams for face-to-face video, which is no different than talking face to face in the office, or by phone.

My situation might be different than what you are envisioning as I am on an Executive level and do not participate in the daily calculation operations but focus more on billing, AR, proposal prep and other business matters.  If I'm awake, there is nobody that cannot talk to me.

It's also important to not that NOBODY can seal a plan without my review.  We don't sign and hard seal any plans now and only I can add my digital signature and seal to a plan, both are personally password protected.

Will I move back into the office?  Probably as we have a five story office building that is under construction with the first two floors being ours and the others leased.

COVID completely changed the work environment and fostered the growth of "telecommuting".  I and most others of us, did not have the pre COVID capability of transferring data in real time back and forth from the field but we had to adapt and did.

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 3:19 pm
(@chris-bouffard)
Posts: 1440
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@dave-karoly see my comments addressing yours that were posted minutes ago.

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 3:27 pm
(@chris-bouffard)
Posts: 1440
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@holy-cow what does your comment even mean??????????

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 3:31 pm
(@norman-oklahoma)
Posts: 7609
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my state law states I must be accessible at the office unless I’m in the field. I could not work remotely 100%

Oregon's law says that every office must have an LS working from it. It doesn't say that said LS must be physically present at that address x number of hours per week. It also doesn't expressly state that every LS working for that company must be in that office. Further, it allows for satellite offices for specific projects. 

 

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 5:28 pm
(@norman-oklahoma)
Posts: 7609
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what does your comment even mean??????????

It means that he doesn't know about video conferencing.

 
Posted : 04/06/2023 5:33 pm
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