Why get a survey

We went to survey a lot with a new home on it.?ÿ The block it was on was about half completed.?ÿ We found the front corners, set up on one, sighted the other and turned the called for angle.?ÿ BAM right into the corner of the house.?ÿ Huh??ÿ Time for some more checking.?ÿ The lots backing up to ours were offset about 10 feet in the rear.?ÿ The builders had pulled string lines from the wrong rear corner to the front on ALL the lots on our side of the block.?ÿ EVERY house was built over the line and some were already occupied.?ÿ Expensive to rerecord the final plat and all the deeds, not counting the time and all the red faces from the builders.

Andy

I was asked to find the corner mons prior to sale, lot had a nice 2 story with daylight basement.?ÿ Found all corner mons, also found that a corner of the house was about 10 feet over the line.?ÿ ?ÿ Fortunately, the adjoiner was agreeable (for some healthy remuneration , of course) to a property line adjustment.?ÿ ?ÿ The seller, who also was the builder could not understand how this had happened because he had set up a transit and surveyed in the house location.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ http://http://resources.deschutes.org/tif2pdf/?tif=matrixgisimagessurveyFolder0814380.tif/tif2pdf/?tif=matrixgisimagessurveyFolder0814380.tif

boss got a call for a mortgage survey "foundation has been poured, need first draw on construction loan"

Rural subdivision, mostly empty lots. Drove up the hill, around a curve and on the inside of the switchback was a fresh foundation. we continued up to the lot, just brush. Yep, they built on the wrong lot.
Easy to do, the other lot was a very similar size and shape.
The owner/builder was not happy. He tried to work a deal with the lot owner to trade lots but he got a "remove your stuff" demand.

a couple years later the foundation (it never got removed) was used by the lot owner, he was happy (I doubt he had good neighbor relations with the other guy)

Funny you should ask, I'm working on one on my other screen right now.?ÿ Here's a sketch:

I show up to stake the house seat for rough grading and find that the rear adjoiner's fence is about 0.2' over the line at the left rear corner and tapers to 12' into us before cutting back to hit their lot corner.?ÿ The fence is about 4 years old and installed by the adjoiner's predecessor.?ÿ This is an ongoing project so I can't say much at this point, but if either my client or the adjoiner had gotten surveys prior to purchasing their lots, they wouldn't be having this issue.?ÿ Hopefully all the folks involved in their respective transactions recommended that they get a survey which they then declined.

The two most common reasons I've heard for not getting a survey are cost and the possibility that the survey will reveal problems that will either delay or kill the sale. Cost is a no-brainer......Even with a simple issue like the fence above, I bet that the cost to relocate the fence (assuming reuse of existing materials) will be more than the lot survey would've cost.?ÿ As to surveys revealing issues that delay or kill sales, everyone involved should want issues identified and solved prior to closing.?ÿ Prior to closing, the parties involved can negotiate a solution or move on, after closing I'm betting the purchaser gets stuck with the problem unless they're willing to involve attorneys.?ÿ If attorneys are brought into the mix, everyone involved in the transaction will likely be the worse for wear afterwards.

Adjacent/current homeowners will move corners and replace them so as to accommodate their fences, landscaping, etc.

I probably under sell the need for a survey, yet I am working today.

I actually tell clients and their associated interests that?ÿsurveys are expensive so make sure you need one. When I say this with a sympathetic yet authoritative tone I get many heads nodding in agreement. Better yet, they are expecting it to be costly because I've already told them so.

There's really only three reasons a survey is required in my portion of the frozen tundra. The reasons most are touting are just derivatives of one of the three, but this is how I organize my thinking when asked Why do I need a survey?:

Do you need to know exactly where the propertly line is at and/or exactly how many acres in the parcel? I just want to know exactly what I own, I want to build close to my line or my setback, My sale price is based on actual acres,?ÿ My neighbor and I disagree about the location or our line.

Do you need to divide an exsiting property??ÿI am selling off part of my property but keeping the rest, I would like to divide it in to three pieces for my kids, etc.?ÿ

Is an outside entity requiring a survey? Lending institution, City, County, Home owners association, etc.

Steve

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Lady was about to buy a house in a tiny town. ?ÿShe and her husband had done some measuring and could not get the house and garage to fit. ?ÿTurned out they were correct. ?ÿA few decades earlier a previous owner had forgotten about a 30 feet wide street that separated the property from a railroad. ?ÿEverything was off by about that amount. ?ÿThe true west line was within two feet of a neighbor's house. ?ÿThe lady paid me and backed out of the deal for an excellent reason.

Fellow wants to buy a house on a 50-foot lot but can only step off 40 feet between fences. ?ÿWe discover a problem that had existed for over 40 years. ?ÿAdjoining tracts had been a single 100-foot wide tract at that time. ?ÿOn the same day, with documents clearly prepared by the same person, the north 60 feet and the south 50 feet were sold and the deeds filed. ?ÿHard to get 60 plus 50 to equal 100.

Married couple do their own measurements and description to separate a small tract with their homestead from the rest of their farm to get a much lower interest rate on the residential-style loan. ?ÿA few years later they divorce and she gets the house and he gets the rest of the farm. ?ÿNo problem. ?ÿSeveral years later we get a call to do a mortgagee title inspection on the house tract when the ex-wife decides to sell. ?ÿWe find a nice metal building about half on the house tract and half on the farm tract. ?ÿEventually learn how the once-married couple had made the mistake by measuring from the road fence line instead of the section line near the center of the road 30 feet away. ?ÿThe entire building was supposed to go with the house.

Two adjoining tracts in a small town were once a single tract that was split into two equal tracts. ?ÿExcept they were not equal. ?ÿOwner of original parcel did the split on paper after building a new house on the west half (or so he thought). ?ÿIn order to save a large tree that his wife demanded remain the fellow had rotated the new house foundation. ?ÿThis put the roof corner eleven feet over the line. ?ÿOops! ?ÿA friend had lived in the house for a couple of years before a new neighbor commented that his half appeared to be significantly smaller than my friend's half.

A fellow had recently purchased a rather elaborate home with numerous pools, fountains, shrubbery beds and a large detached garage. ?ÿHe calls to see if I can prove he should not need to have flood insurance as his lender was insisting. ?ÿI was familiar with this property but had not surveyed it. ?ÿMy first comment after he mentioned how his main floor was higher than his lawn was that he had a basement and its elevation was the critical element. ?ÿThen I had to explain that "finish floor" does not always refer to the main floor. ?ÿThen he protested that his entire property was above flood level. That's when I told him that there was a large drainage canal under his garage and that he did not own the land where his garage was located nor the large shrubbery beds and fountains on that end of what he thought was his property. ?ÿNow he knew I was nuts! ?ÿI asked if he had noticed the big stone-lined drainage channel across the road from the north end of his tract that was about 20 feet wide and over 15 feet deep. ?ÿHe said that he had noticed it. ?ÿI told him to go across the street, crawl down the ladder to the concrete floor of the channel and start walking towards his house.

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A bit later he called back and was spitting mad. ?ÿNot at me. ?ÿAt everyone involved in the sale who never mentioned the "minor" issues he had just discovered by taking the little trip I had recommended.

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He had moved 150 miles to this town. ?ÿNo one local was interested in the property because they had read the stories about the previous owner, who was quite wealthy, and his battles with the city when he built the garage and constructed the other improvements above the concrete top to the drainage channel that was entirely on city-owned property.

I was meeting with a realtor on one property.?ÿ He then asked me about another that was not moving.

I pulled it up in street view.?ÿ Historic with no clearance from the ground the to shingles.?ÿ I said, well, there must some rot in there, what did the home inspector have to say?

He responded that he went to a seminar and they told him to let the inspector into the house, then sit in your car and read a book.?ÿ If you so not know, you do not have to disclose...

Then he had a 3rd property to review, staking a common easement for the association boat launch.?ÿ The record plan has a few monuments that are all pretty far away and nothing is really GPS worthy.?ÿ He cringed at my number.

I found my lot corners before I purchased my current house but I would not have paid for a survey if the seller would not compensate me. I have no hard data, but I suspect the odds are in favor of the buyer getting a better return on their money by increasing their down payment.?ÿ Ideally, a buyer would come to the table with 20% and enough for an in depth assessment of their boundary, but most buyers I know don't even have 10%.?ÿ If 95% of transactions go through without a hitch it would be inappropriate to tell everyone they need a survey prior to purchasing.?ÿ

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I've been working with engineers a lot lately and I have begun to think that some of my fears of the perpetual liability boogeyman are akin to the over-engineering I've witnessed. If I am so afraid of liability that there is no situation in which I would take a fellow surveyor's plat and walk the boundaries of a lot with a buyer or seller, then how can I honestly extol the value of my plats to my clients?Sure my diligent work may help my peers but the fact that most people purchase without a survey and don't suffer is hard to ignore.?ÿ

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In Maine, a client could call me up and ask me to ring for his corners and take quick look at the lot he is thinking about purchasing. I'd have to put it in a contract, but I would not be breaking any board rules. Down here in NC where I actually practice, I essentially have to perform a full blown boundary or risk the wrath of the board. God help you if you don't tie it to grid. While it would be great if every bridge were made with titanium, I've driven across a heck of a lot of wood ones that worked just fine.?ÿ

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There's what you own (or might buy) on paper, i.e. title, and then there's what you (or the seller) are occupying on the ground. Hopefully they match.?ÿ

When they do match, and a surveyor documents that happy fact, you have "perfect title."

In Black's Law Dictionary, look up the phrase "droit droit." It basically means that paper title matches physical possession.

One of my mentors used to tell potential customers, "your title is only as good as the most recent survey."?ÿ

I gave a talk like you are putting together a few years ago.?ÿ

The surveying part is prettty easy for those realtors to grasp.?ÿ

I keyed in on the title insurance side of the equation. As in the survey exception of the policy.?ÿThat seemed to surprise a lot of people.

I also hit on using surveys provided by the sellers when they purchased the property.

The funniest thing was how when I was done with the talk there were always people who had questions. In talking with them, the one thing I always heard was "I would never let one of my clients buy a property without having a new survey done, but...."?ÿ

Psssshhhh.?ÿ

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I tell people who ask that by getting a recent field survey with accompanying plat done, you get the name of a human that will defend your property rights, with responsibility and liability for a statutory period (10 years in Colorado), and, in the unlikely event that there is an error in that work, protection with the liability insurance. You are paying for a signed and stamped document. Without this document, you and your neighbors are wondering what the numbers on a 50 year old plat mean, done by a surveyor who has passed away.?ÿ

You can also think about a boundary survey & map as being an improvement to the property.?ÿ They don't think twice about sinking money into a deck, or gutters, why not a boundary survey.

Several years ago I was contracted to survey for a new 100 water transmission line easement.?ÿ It turns out that some guy invested his retirement money in a nice new home on a large rural lot without researching the easements.?ÿ Said house was built on top of an easement for future water transmission pipes from Portland's watershed to the City.?ÿ?ÿThe owner's attorney asks the City how long it was going to take for them to move the easement.?ÿ The City replies that the real question is when the yet to be occupied house would be removed form the easement.?ÿ A deal was reached that the home owner would pay for the easement to be rerouted across five properties.?ÿ We are talking really big pipes that you just don't through a couple of angle points in.?ÿ If any of the owners balked, the guy would have to move the house.?ÿ I'm guessing it cost him well over 30K to make good.

I am probably too late to offer advice for your talk but when asked about why one needs a survey, my answer is one word. Leverage. Think about it. The?ÿ leverage that a boundary, or topographic survey for that matter, gives to its holder is far greater than without. Couple that with the underlying reason for asking the question in the first place usually ensures that he value gained by said survey is more than without. That alone would probably get a room full of realtors telling you war stories about how a survey helped their clients. ?ÿ