When I started my business in the late 1970's everybody got a survey when they bought their home. And, a survey was was done when they refinanced their loan. Nowadays nobody has a survey done. I conducted a poll a while back, polling real estate agents, asking how many people get a survey done? The final results were that only 1 out of 10 get a survey when they buy their house and property, and no surveys for refinances.
That means that over 90% of all real estate transactions do not have a survey. How can that be? Why is it? Why don't people want to know where their property lines are? I ask myself.
I have seen my company grow from a one man shop in a garage to a thriving machine, employing over 25 people back in the 90's - now - I'm back in my garage. It's come full circle. Clients that used to order 20 surveys per month don't order 2 per year. I've talked with them, I've wined them, I've dined them and sent them Christmas cards. They simply do not want a survey for the buyer of the property. The buyer himself does not want a survey. And, when I ask why, the realtor says that it's not needed. And I ask; not needed by who? and he says the mortgage company and bank does not need a survey. But I say the buyer does, and he says no he does not. And I try to explain that there might be encroachments or easements the effect the property and the use of the property. But yet the realtor says that it is not an issue. And I see this situation play out time after time, day after day, month after month and now year after year. It's been 3 years years since I have seen a profit from my surveying company. The days of old have provided for these lean times and those days have have carried me through, but I'm afraid that it's not going to get any better and that it's time to shut the door. What I once thought would provide for me and my family is now gone. I'm at my wits end, and I know there are others in the same boat. Not that it makes me feel any better about the situation, but a least I know that I'm not alone.
I've tried to change and adapt to the market and the evolving industry but the state of affairs of this profession and economy has gotten me nowhere. I'm at my wits end and I'm about ready to close down or sell the the farm. The reality of today has become clear. I thought that two years ago was the beginning of a change. The only change that has occurred is a worsening of the bad times. I can only hope that I can find a buyer for my once thriving company.
Any takers?
Bob
I think part of the answers are within your own writings.
The difference is between "needed" and "wanted".
When I bought my last 2 houses they were required by the mortgagers.
When I refinanced (several times in both places) I didn't need it sense no construction or fencing had been done. It would have been a further waste of money on my part.
The real estate agents around here talk them out of having them done. Unless the bank requires it or there is an issue with a neighbor, they just aren't having them done.
Yesterday day I had an agent call and ask for a paper survey around a house so he could appraise it higher than if the house remained with the 20 acre tract.
It's been my experience that real estate agents will avoid new surveys like the plague. If the bank requires a survey, they'd rather dig around trying to find a survey from the 70s than order a new one.
The reason: Surveys can screw up their deal. They don't get paid unless it closes, and those unknown encroachments and easements you mentioned are best left unknown, in their minds. Couple that with strapped buyers trying to buy the most house they can for their income, closing costs already in the $10,000 range, and a vague (and often wrong) reference to "that's what title insurance is for", and I'm sure talking a buyer out of a survey is not a hard sell.
Basically, real estate agents have the buyer's ear, and it's not in the real estate agents interest to encourage a new survey.
Ditto what Ranger said.
Surveyors create problems for real estate deals.
The BUYER has the upper hand, though. They are the ones we should be educating, not the real estate agents. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone said "I should have had it surveyed when I bought it".
I agree TPR. Something else to think of is the lender. If there is lenders title insurance and a survey has not been done then it is excepted in schedule B of the policy. I was recently in court as an expert witness on a case. There was a survey done and recorded. The defendants attorney was provided by the title company to defend the survey and interest. The defendant paid no money for the representation, the title company footed the bill. In this case the defendant won.
It seems it would also be in the best interest of the lender not to have a survey done. That way they can tell the homeowner to refer to schedule B. In other words...you should have had a survey done so we would have been aware of the existing problem and could have defended you. The lender would not foot the bill for a defense.
Or at least this is how I've seen things unfold in the past.
Consider diversification.
Maybe get away from mortgage surveys all together.
:coffee:
Each of these guys hit the nail on the head Bobby
Nobody needs mortgage surveys and that little market is gone.
The days of one guy doing 15 ILC's is gone. - time to move on
Mortgage inspections (have a hard time calling them surveys) are still done around here but not as much. I have been in the business of educating folks about the need for a survey for years with some success but it is slow going.
Perhaps I am lucky to come from an area where surveys were never almost mandatory to complete a real estate transaction. That would have either spoiled me or kept me completely out of the market because the BIG BOYS would already have a lock on most jobs. Similary, I do not live in cookie cutter land where 70 percent of all new homes are in recorded subdivisions completed in the past 30 years. I can't imagine working in an area where I could run a survey company and never go more than 20 miles from my home to have a thriving business. Further, I can only dream of being in a situation where a handful of excellent clients would provide over half of my yearly workload.
Realtors, Lawyers, and Engineers....need I say more....
Craig (TPR) has it in a nutshell as far as Ontario, Canada is concerned.
Sometimes if one has a chance, and that requires constant vigilance by being in the right place at the right time, you could ask as I have:
"Well, you get an appraisal for value from an appraiser, an appraisal of condition from a home inspector, an appraisal of quality of title (and I go on to explain that fully), why do you not get an appraisal that the deed matches what you think you are buying ?
After all, when the real estate person showed you the property s/he cannot tell you WYSIWYG ".
Cheers
Derek
Another 'hook' (and always, always in an honest, straight from the shoulder tone) I send out the message of: " Compare the retail cost of your front door that gives your home security comfort to that of the comfort that WYSIWYG".
In addition to the reasons already stated, another possible factor is that modern society is much less in touch with the land than in past generations. Many work and play primarily indoors, and don’t care about the extent of their land ownership, beyond where to cut the grass.
Could this be the answer?
http://www.fahomebuilder.com/expressMap.html
Seems the Title Company thinks we slow down the process?????
How many times does a parcel need to be surveyed before someone gets it right? The answer should be once, the first time. I know that's not how it is, seems in the PLSS it never happens (protraction - a setup for failure). Maybe all the lots in your area already have multiple opinion markers at every corner, so why get another one.
I don't have much survey work either, just moving on to other things. Adapt and survive. Not always easy but that's the reality.
I do some outreach in our area with a couple of real estate lawyers. We go to real estate offices and speak to the brokers about the importance of the survey and, specifically, how it relates to title insurance issues.
I would be willing to bet that 98% of the brokers I talk to say that they would never have a client or customer buy a property without having a new survey made. I should, therefore, be swimming in work. Not so much these days.
I am a broker as well, and I know what they teach about surveying in the RE classes. It's dismal. I also know as a fact that most broker's main interest is to get to the closing table as fast as possible with the fewest problems. That's payday.
Also, bear in mind, that unless the broker who brings a buyer to a deal is under contract as a buyer's agent, they are a sub-agent of the listing agent and are, as such, representing the SELLER.
Some years ago, I had the bright idea of inviting the local president of the Baton Rouge Lawyer's Title Insurance agency come speak to my Boundary Surveying students. The presentation was so demoralizing for a budding surveying student that I have never invited the man back. He essentially said that boundary surveys in established subdivisions are a waste of time and money as far as title insurance is concerned. He said that they are willing to take the risk rather than get involved with a Land Surveyor. He said that there are so few boundary problems that it is considered useless.
I thought of installing underground dog fences and giving a free survey with it . Probably make more money doing that and have more surveying. People spend 1000 bucks on a guy with a ditch witch and a couple hours putting in some underground wire . They wont spend money on a survey .
I think the public has gotten so used to getting a plat after
closing that has no mention of finding and seting corners aka inspections
that the purchaser figures the surveyors must not set property corners.
My neighbors across the alley built a pretty cedar fence on top a 6" concrete
wall that is about one foot high above the ground. Everybody in my neighborhood
seems to get along and mind their own business. The cedar fence was not down
the center split between houses; I asked my neighbor if he knew where the property
line was. He responded, "It matches where the lawn mower cut is. What do you want?"