I've been doing a lot of survey support work on apartment buildings in urban Portland. One current site (I posted about this one in the past) did not have a real boundary survey done on it during the design phase (there was a topo - with the 1850's era record plat boundary regurgitated and placed based on unreferenced evidence). I worked a boundary out just days before excavation began.?ÿ Luckily the proposed structure fit on the site with a little wiggling in. Dodged a bullet, they did, IMHO.
Now that site is nearing completion I'm proposing setting the corners in the finished sidewalk and filing a Record of Survey.?ÿI'm being asked to provide justification for the extra expense (which I estimate to be $3k in a multi-million dollar project).?ÿ Ugh.
It seems so obvious to me that I'm having trouble putting down words. Maybe some of you guys can help me out? Why should the owner have property monuments set around his new building after construction is complete??ÿ
Note: It's not a statutory requirement. There is a requirement to restore destroyed monuments. But there was no monument at any corner of this property at the start, so none have been destroyed.?ÿ
Can you go with an "X" cut in the sidewalk, or does the local regulations need disk/caps?
I would say my price is cheap, compared to what lawyers charge in a boundary dispute, if the corners are set, that will allowed the Surveyor surveying the next tract, to know where the Apt boundary is.?ÿ ?ÿ
Since these boats already sunk: Engineer refusing to do design without a formal boundary/ surveyor refusing to do construction layout without a formal boundary (whether by others or self).
Mention to them they may be interested in selling one day. Having a boundary completed, mon's set, and a map on file could facilitate that future transaction and lessen the survey costs a high-roller may require in due-diligence support.?ÿ
Unless?ÿthe owner/developer is planning on adding the building to a long term portfolio; they're probably going to flip it to the first REIT or insurance company that comes along.?ÿ In that case, they really don't care about any boundary issues that may arise a few years down the road and your suggestion is just taking money (however small an amount in relationship to the development) out of their pocket.
For concrete, the county surveyor will require that we use Bernsten brass plugs. They make a nice, neat, stable monument. That's not an issue.?ÿ?ÿ
I would suggest to them that the cost in replicating the survey in the future would be significantly reduced (like when a re-fi requires an ALTA survey) by having permanent recorded monuments set now....
As a justice of the peace, I've heard some appeals of property valuation for real estate tax purposes. It looked like the tax records overstated the area of a few properties; if a recent certified survey had been presented, we could have placed a lower value on the property, but without a survey, we weren't willing to change the valuation (for that reason; building condition was another matter). Whether the tax authorities in your area would pay any heed to a survey created and sealed by a land surveyor, but not recorded, and which lacked monuments on the ground, is something your clients would have to ask about.
How about: Without a boundary survey or marked corners, the next surveyor working on this or any adjacent property is much more?ÿlikely to have an alternate opinion and cause a massive problem.
IMO you're trying to provide them something they do not want.?ÿ Cut your losses and move on.?ÿ?ÿ
Yes, I understand the many benefits of having a survey completed but most of the public doesn't. Can we try and educate them? Sure.?ÿ ?ÿWill they be receptive to your guidance??ÿ Maybe.?ÿ?ÿ
Your price seems way low for the project too...just sayin.?ÿ A 3k bill for a boundary survey on a multi-million project seems out of sync. But that's a topic for another discussion.
Norman,
They got a project like that funded without an ALTA Survey?
IMO you're trying to provide them something they do not want.?ÿ Cut your losses and move on.?ÿ?ÿ
Yes, I understand the many benefits of having a survey completed but most of the public doesn't. Can we try and educate them? Sure.?ÿ ?ÿWill they be receptive to your guidance??ÿ Maybe.?ÿ?ÿ
Your price seems way low for the project too...just sayin.?ÿ A 3k bill for a boundary survey on a multi-million project seems out of sync. But that's a topic for another discussion.
I think the 3K is just for setting corners and the filing fees.?ÿ
Tell them that having physical monuments set and a survey recorded is the cheapest insurance they can possibly obtain?ÿwith the added benefit of making the?ÿfinancing much easier if and when they sell. Then ask them if they are in the business of buying the same real estate twice in the event they're required to have another survey done down the road. To not memorialize the survey work they've already paid for is simply penny wise and pound foolish.
Norman,
They got a project like that funded without an ALTA Survey?
They had an ALTA. It was a P.O.S. No monuments shown. 90?ø lot corners. Exact plat dimensions (plat c.1850).?ÿ ?ÿ
I got an ISP when I bought my house because the garage looked awfully close to the lot line.?ÿ For my little 205k investment it cost me $950 with a topo, and I got a "surveyor's discount".
I agree with the previous post about no ALTA done.?ÿ I'm guessing whoever owns it, OWNS it, and no loans are involved with the transactions, hence lots more hinkiness possibly...IMHO.....
IMO you're trying to provide them something they do not want.?ÿ Cut your losses and move on.?ÿ?ÿ
Yes, I understand the many benefits of having a survey completed but most of the public doesn't. Can we try and educate them? Sure.?ÿ ?ÿWill they be receptive to your guidance??ÿ Maybe.?ÿ?ÿ
Your price seems way low for the project too...just sayin.?ÿ A 3k bill for a boundary survey on a multi-million project seems out of sync. But that's a topic for another discussion.
Scott is right. I've already been paid to survey 3 blocks around and resolve the property boundaries. The $3k is to set the corners and prepare the map.?ÿ
You are right about providing them something they don't want. But I feel honor bound to take one good?ÿ ?ÿ shot at selling them. Then I will rest easy and wait for the chance to double dip on the inevitable ALTA with Table A Item 1.?ÿ ?ÿ
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I agree that it would be nice to set the corners, and brass no less will be sufficiently impressive. You could respond that you would like a meeting with the owners (I presume you are working for the owners and not the contractor) where you can show them an example of the type of point you would be setting and what your map would look like. You can remind them that it will be recorded for ever and ever. You could offer to put their name on the caps in addition to yours. And finally, show them the short comings of their existing map and survey and explain each and everyone of them carefully and thoughtfully.?ÿ
If after this meeting they still don't want your services, you don't want to do anymore work for them because they are not worthy.?ÿ
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Wow!?ÿ That's a crime...
Texas version of your delima.
Setting monuments is required, not setting monuments would be a violation of BOR rules and regulations and would place you in a situation that could cause you the surveyor to pay fines and be subject to a suspension of your license and/or lose it temporarily or for good. It all depends upon how many times you have failed to set monuments.
NJ requires a plan to be issued when a boundary survey is done.
Corners must be set unless a corner marker waiver is signed by the owner of the property per statutory law.
We basically have to include the price of the corners being set and offer a discount if they sign the waiver.
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"the 1850's era record plat boundary regurgitated and placed based on unreferenced evidence). I worked a boundary out just days before excavation began."
Rescind your offer.?ÿ
$3 k?ÿ to take on multi-millions in liability where you had to adjust (wiggle) the building to make if fit doesn't sound like a good deal for you.?ÿ
If they want you to take on that kind of long-term responsibility it should cost significantly more than $3k - like many times more - like more than 10x more.?ÿ
