The previous post about using a boundary performed by another surveyor brings up a question regarding platted boundaries. I no longer perform boundary surveys or do any platting. All we do is new housing construction surveying, (too busy with house$ for other low paying stuff). When a client asks us to be the project surveyor for a new just platted subdivision I always charge a fee for verification of Boundary, vertical, and centerline control. (Florida requires permanent control points be set at all pc, pt, pi, prc??s etc.)
We run the centerline control and vertical at the same time with a TS and tie into boundary monuments along the way. The findings are amazing. I have had C/L control points missing boundary by up to 0.9??. All houses are at absolute setbacks so there is no room for a 0.1 here and there. Usually the model homes are staked for construction long before any roads are in by the platting surveyor who uses the boundary monuments then we do the rest. The Models create a head scratcher for following surveyors who use the centerline control. They will then find that the Models agree with themselves but not C/L control thus setback encroachments pop up and the title company goes berserk, and pin cushioning starts.
Which control, boundary or centerline, would you use to lay out 100-300 houses?
I always use the centerline control regardless of the initial Model problems.
What say you?
Though I don't make a living in that area anymore I have run into the very same thing you're talking about.?ÿ And like you I generally stick with the platted CL.
I have run into "property pins" that were at least a foot or so off of their calc'd location.?ÿ And there were times there were houses either being constructed or completed on those lots.?ÿ So, in my mind, it's a "case by case" scenario; there are no hard and fast rules.
I use to sub a lot of work from a CE that was also an LS.?ÿ He always created his plats from the cheapest boundary he could buy.?ÿ They were always "rough" at best.?ÿ I was contacted by the State Board concerning the fact that although his signature was upon the plat, the "original" property pins bore my caps.?ÿ The Board didn't like that for some reason.
I had to ask them, "What in the hell do want me to do??ÿ You want me to set another surveyor's caps just because he doesn't have any field crews??ÿ Or would you rather me just not do that sort of work and let the developer sell lots with either no pins or bad ones at best?"?ÿ I pointed out that the statutes state I am required to place MY caps on any pins I set.?ÿ I held with the opinion I was following statutes and suggested they bark up somebody else's pant leg for a while.?ÿ They concluded their investigation with no action.
My thought has always been; the corner set by the original surveyor is the corner of the property. Would you consider, what you're doing, retracement? Isn't that, what a court would hold, in a push come to shove situation?
If you're finding original, undisturbed corners, set by the original surveyor; unless there was fraud involved; then that is what should be used. How good do the centerline monuments fit the original exterior boundary? Was the exterior boundary done correctly; does it fit the original GLO corners?
I know it sounds like a lot of extra work; a good 2-man crew and a robot, should be able to average 20 houses a day. But if they need to verify the corners of the lots are in the right spot and what to do when the're not; can cut into productivity.
Like Paden says; it's a case by case scenario. Maintaining harmony in the neighborhood will save you a lot of heartburn in the future.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it... ?????ÿ
My thought has always been; the corner set by the original surveyor is the corner of the property. Would you consider, what you're doing, retracement? Isn't that, what a court would hold, in a push come to shove situation?
If you're finding original, undisturbed corners, set by the original surveyor; unless there was fraud involved; then that is what should be used. How good do the centerline monuments fit the original exterior boundary? Was the exterior boundary done correctly; does it fit the original GLO corners?
I know it sounds like a lot of extra work; a good 2-man crew and a robot, should be able to average 20 houses a day. But if they need to verify the corners of the lots are in the right spot and what to do when the're not; can cut into productivity.
Like Paden says; it's a case by case scenario. Maintaining harmony in the neighborhood will save you a lot of heartburn in the future.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it... ?ÿ
Fortunately most of the wayward (and uncapped) pins I ever ran into in this type of deal were set prior to the acceptance of the final plat.?ÿ In my walnut-sized brain they were little more than construction stakes.?ÿ And there were a few that weren't congruent with the actual plat...requiring a replat of the block (spelled pain-in-the-butt) to keep the structure on a lot and within the set-backs.?ÿ I can only think of two or three times that happened.?ÿ Most of the time my field hands (oh no, not ME...) just yanked the "estimated corner" and set a proper monument....OK, sue me and yank my shingle...?ÿ 😉
All the Monuments, including centerline are placed by the platting surveyor. The problem is that they disagree with each other. The centerline monumentation is usually right on, and that's why I use it. Additionally the perimeter monuments are usually disturbed during rough grading process.
If you have a blank slate and are staking houses for the developer using the centerline pins probably makes sense. Everyone gets a brand new house on a brand new staked lot of the record dimensions. You are making sure everything fits record reducing future problems.
It gets more complicated if some houses have been built and fenced off the misplaced but original lot corners.
As you do, I'd almost certainly go with the centerline monuments. If pressed I'd call those rough lot corner monuments disturbed. The centerline monuments are less likely to be so.
Also keeping in mind that you are doing this at the stage where one person still owns all the lots, which has consequences.
I would likely hold the centerline control so long as it is original and identifiable as such.
All the Monuments, including centerline are placed by the platting surveyor. The problem is that they disagree with other
Call him up and tell him to fix his mess.
I have a good relationship with most all of the local surveyors. Problem is they will come back and fix things but that usually occurs, if ever, by the time the project is almost built out. By that time the boundary monuments are of no concern as I don't know of any local surveyors who would utilize boundary monuments when center-line control is already set by the same surveyor who set the boundary monuments. ????
That was my main job in Florida, setting PCP's and PRM's along with boundary work...I know for a fact that some of the boundary monuments were set in some sloppy swampy crap and were very loose...
Houston has an almost unique process. All plats must be signed and sealed, including a statement that, "this plat was prepared from an actual survey made on the ground by me or under my supervision and that, except as shown, all PCs, PIs, PTs and boundary corners have been staked with iron rods or pipes 5/8" in diameter and not less than 36" in length and that the plat boundary corners have been tied to the Texas Coordinate System of 1983, South Central Zone." So Houston requires that all interior block corners along the rights-of-way and all exterior boundary corners have been set prior to ANY under-ground or above-ground work (lot clearing, utilities, paving, etc.) and will have to be reset during the ensuing construction.
Are you leaving the "boundary" monuments in place? It makes sense to use the CL monuments assuming at this point the developer still owns the whole thing, but as soon as the lot is sold the landowners would be right to use their platted property corners. That's what they are there for.?ÿ
What does prior to the acceptance of the plat mean, aren't monuments usually set prior to final acceptance? Are they not referred to by the plat? If that is the case if you are not using them they should be pulled, otherwise someone will use them in the future and.....
