When are the irons close enough....

No one has relied on them, there is no record. No reason to not put them where you would put them if you had set them in the first place. Sounds like some are good and some would be out of tolerance by statute here. Your name will be used as the surveyor for this phase.
jud

I don't change the plat or move the monuments. I can't measure much closer than that... looks like pretty good work to me!

what are the lot sizes, how much are they worth, will a tenth hurt anything? for most residential subdivision i work a lot is about an acre and the raw land is not worth a whole lot ($10-20k). i wouldn't reset a pin for being a tenth out. now if it were my name on it, i would tell my guys to tighten up but i still wouldn't reset them unless it was downtown high dollar property.

just detail them on your plan. i detail anything over 0.05' out. my working plans show every monument with details.

i wish more surveyors would detail the monuments
we subdivided a 48 acre piece that showed monuments at every corner
it was a land courted property, so the court reviewed all the work and a judge decreed the plan. we even got the initial submission from the court and the traverse plan, no detail information.
the monuments were all over the place - out by feet in many cases. it was a grumble project

> ... "pre-set" all the new rear lot corners....The pipes are checking 0.05' - 0.15'.
>
> How would you handle it as far as platting the new phase? Do you show them as existing on your plat and start tweaking all the nice parallel lot lines in the CAD file? Do you not show them on the plat and call them out as new and do little hammer tweaking hear and there?

So all these found monuments are the rear corners of a prior phase, and are intended to be coincidental with your phase? And they fit within a tenth or so of what the recorded subdivision plat shows?

Sounds like your job just got easier. If those are already indicated on the prior phase, why would you want to overstake them or move them? Those are original monuments, so just treat them as one.

In some areas that tenth would be considered "good enough". So unless you'd want to open a big can of worms by adjusting the "nice parallel lines" in your phase, just set the front ones where you think they belong and be done with it. Maybe a tap here & there could be appropriate but we can't say that. But I'd be reluctant to re-calc a bunch of stuff over a few hundreths here and there.

You could show them as record & measure from your new front corners, but that may just confuse some people.

What does the previous surveyor have to say? I've inherited a few projects like that, and sometimes you just have to live with it.

:good:

re:
> So all these found monuments are the rear corners of a prior phase, and are intended to be coincidental with your phase? And they fit within a tenth or so of what the recorded subdivision plat shows?
>
> Sounds like your job just got easier. If those are already indicated on the prior phase, why would you want to overstake them or move them? Those are original monuments, so just treat them as one.

That's what I was thinking....except you said they were "Pre-staked"?

Anyway, if those are common corners an earlier subdivision...or phase, it seems to me that you should presume the monuments to be the true, original corners, and you need to hold them. If one appears farther out than all the rest, and looks like it could have been moved, that would be a different story, otherwise the original monuments in their original position are gospel.

During your boundary survey, you discover that the prior firm working on the development has "pre-set" all the new rear lot corners. I'm sure it was "busy" work for one of their crews back when things were slowing down. The pipes are checking 0.05' - 0.15'.
Sounds like preset monuments for the next phase to me.
jud

Depending on the lot sizes and the differences between individual irons...a tenth is not all that bad...at least for what we find around here. Under a tenth I usually call it on, frost heave...lawn mowers, natural dirt movement, compaction, and the original field crew all add up over time.

We are always told not to pull stakes but In this case I might...if a few were too far out for me to be comfortable with I might move them (hammer) or if real bad re-set them. I don't think you said they were called for on anything and you can prove they were wrong, and this is still in construction so I don't see much of a problem. They can only be proven original monuments if they are called for (usually).

Tom

If they are someone else's original corners, leave them the heck alone, any "error" in the measurement is YOUR error.

However,

If they are your original corners - do whatever blows your skirt up. 😉

Personally, for the typical residential subdivision, I wouldn't lose alot of sleep, or waste much money on .05' - .15'.

I would adjust the irons to where I am going to show them on the plat. The choice of changing bearings and distances or matching parallel lines, is really your decision. I am of the mind that making them parallel is a good thing, but please make the irons fit your mapping.

I interpret this to mean these irons are all in the new phase of the subdivision, not on the boundary between phases.

What tolerance would you see if you set a bunch of irons yourself, then came back and remeasured independently? How many are outside your tolerance? It would certainly look better to make them fit the drawing to your tolerance and not rework the drawing. But if either way is acceptable, which is cheaper?

Good stuff gentlemen. I think I'm not going to make it easy and hold the intended lot lines for the new phase and show all the irons as new corners. Anything over a tenth out I'll adjust and the rest will be left alone.

You can sure tell who the beginner surveyors are by the responses.

Leave the monuments alone, doing that, you can do no wrong.

:good:

With all due respect to all, and as usual... it depends. But at the end of the day any and all of those corners now become yours, per your subdivision plat. No big deal really, but some people are just more comfortable with a tenth or so than others.

sidebar PS - Hope all is well Paul.

ahh the old, you have a different opinion from me so you must be new or inexperienced argument. In NC, the irons probably dont meet the standards of practice at this time, so filing a map and not worrying about a tenth or more, just doesnt make sense in this situation. I think CC has a good plan.

Paul, could you elaborate on what wrong he could be doing by moving monuments that aren't officially platted or relied on yet? They are only part of the monumentation for the new phase of the development and he is putting in the rest of them.

> ... The pipes are checking 0.05' - 0.15'....

What do your state statutes / minimum standards have to say about required accuracy? And what magnitude do the error ellipses in your control have?

But, generally, since these pipes are unrecorded and unrelied upon I'd go ahead and adjust anything with a falling greater than 0.1'.

I'm looking at a similar project.....

Except no corners were set and the plat was recorded. My question is; Is it ethical to set the corners in this plat?