If you are a capable tech or PLS, there is no reason to work for low pay. I am sure there are communities where the rates and pay are depressed. Do not blame the profession if you choose to stay in one. You can make an excellent living as a surveyor if you make the necessary choices.
A good tech in the Portland area can make $30/hr, plus real bennies. When I was in OK I earned wages a little bit better than what I was accustomed to making in PDX.
But I don't live on a diet of rural boundaries, lot jobs, and fence line staking. If you rely on private landowners for a client base you are always going to be racing to the bottom. You need public agencies, developers, heavy construction, etc.?ÿ for clients. Those are the types that have money to spend on surveying.
+1
Those type of clients know the value of your services, need and budget for it. Not so much with John Q public.
Plumbers are in high demand in my area, they've all tripled their fees in that last few years.
Surveyors are in high demand. I would estimate 10% have increased their fees 15% in the last few years.
I know several who charge less now than I did 10+ years ago.
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Right, that's what I see... significant demand, median pay or less.
I'm curious if anyone here knows of an area of the country that is quietly growing. Somewhere with survey demand, a dollar goes quite a ways, and the housing isn't so tight that you can get a nice 2-bedroom place for under 200K.
That's because plumbers are smart and recognize the cost of doing business and adjust their prices. They budget and plan for new equipment and new vehicles, etc..
Surveyors.........not so much. In fact they are the worse business men I have ever seen. A group of professionals squandering an incredible opportunity because of absolute and total stupidity
Spoke with a plumber today at my neighbors house. 2 man crew, a experienced hand and a new hire with no plumbing experience. The new hire was $18 hour with vacation and insurance.?ÿ
Most surveyors in my area are doing work cheaper than 10 years ago and if they try to say otherwise they are lying. It has been my experience that most surveyors obsess about how low they can go and get the job INSTEAD of using their claimed rates and pricing it properly to make money and profit. They may claim to have a $150 hour crew rate but they don't use it and never will.
And for those touting the construction or fat cat corporate clients, puhleese, those are no better.?ÿ I've spent many years doing construction and if they can screw you they will. It is easy to blame a surveyor for anything and if one of the contractors find they underpriced the job they are sure to pull out the old "surveyor screwed up card" and you're gonna be stepping and fetching trying to show them that you are correct and it is the contractor who screwed up.?ÿ
The problem is profit guilt and utter stupidity it is highly contagious.
The new hire was $18 hour with vacation and insurance.?ÿ
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What would you pay a person in this position? The title of this position is demeaning because it doesn't reflect the qualifications required for the position.?ÿ
Minimum Requirements:
- Minimum 2-3 years experience
- Valid drivers license
- PC literate
Really? All that in 2??3 years? PC literate? They're not assuming anything, are they? This and other similarly worded job postings do not shed a bright light on our profession. Perception is everything. A number of years ago I read a job posting for a party chief position that listed "Must know how to calculate." as one of the minimum requirements. Ridiculous!
I wouldn't rush into law school unless you can get a full ride (some people do). If you think the surveying profession is full of false promises, the legal profession will likely be an even bigger disappointment. Three years out of the work force, three years of law school tuition, and a very right-tail skewed (log-normal) distribution of salaries.
That is a terribly worded job posting and doesn't help in advancing our profession. Based on that I have no clue what position the job is for and I could not put a dollar value on it.
I can post similar listings I have seen as well.
That is a terribly worded job posting and doesn't help in advancing our profession. Based on that I have no clue what position the job is for and I could not put a dollar value on it.
I can post similar listings I have seen as well.
Just a grunt labor person probably needs to be no less than $15.00 to $17.50 hour because they can make that working in an air conditioned environment stocking shelves and be able to use a real toilet and not have to take a squat in the woods. There has to be a premium to what we pay because a lot of it is in adverse working conditions.
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The people that you see there later would nearly always be the people that were interested in promotions and raises (and know how to earn them). This is one of those topics that tends to get me in trouble but to suggest that a raise is determined by who is willing to work overtime for free is part and parcel with many of the problems we have as a profession.
Steven, I think that staying after work and learning about the profession is the equivalent to attending class. Last time I went to class, I had to pay the teachers. Most of the new guys I have observed today want me to pay them to go class. I want the ambitious guy who is determined to work hard, attend formal classes to learn theory and then listen to the veterans who will teach newcomers if they are willing to learn. Their goal is to become the best at whatever they try. There aren't too many of those around, though.
Oh.....I see how it is. You have to stay late on your own time to learn and be trained, mentored and taught.
That DOG DON'T HUNT!
This is not 1960 where people have a dutiful little wife at home caring for the kids with dinner waiting for when you come dragging in. People have long commutes and other things to do besides being an indentured servant reducing level notes or reviewing traverse data for free when they could be taking their kids fishing instead. I resent the suggestion that people should be expected to stay late for zero compensation to prove they are worthy because every single one of them have more important things to do than pad your bottom line.?ÿ
If they are worth training and show promise then they can be trained and paid.?ÿ
Oh I just love witty posts like this.......it makes me just want to smash things.
To burst a bubble
Today's Carlson Cad programs contain and are built around their original program written for Apple and converted into a DOS Cogo program that was called Surveyor1 COGO and it is still the best COGO surveying program on the market in MVHO. Bruce is the man. He allowed it to go public and it is included in SMI and TDS programming. All hail DOS, it is everlasting.
0.02
Steven, are you going to pay for all of their time learning this profession while not at work? You are going to pay for tuition, classes, and books? Really?
My firm will pay for SOME of the classwork, but nowhere near all of it. Name me just 1 profession that pays for all of your expenses while taking classes away from the office or the truck.
Sincerely,
Jack Chiles
It used to be when a young recruit was hired they were put with an experienced PC & I'M and heck maybe even a Rodman but anyway that boot recruit would learn the basics and if he showed promise he would be shown the ropes. He would be instructed on how to run the rod, instrument and so on. He would be eased into and trained and mentored on the job, the old OJT if you will. Apparently nobody trains anyone anymore and they are expected to stay after work or go to college just to get some doggone basic training.?ÿ ?ÿ
I always thought OJT was part of any entry level job and had no idea instant experts existed.?ÿ
"I don't live on a diet of rural boundaries, lot jobs, and fence line staking. If you rely on private landowners for a client base you are always going to be racing to the bottom."
Here is the 95% of the problem with the profession: We have lost the support of our "base." Private landowners are irritated that surveyors have a legislated monopoly and private landowners want to starve that nonsense out of existence. Make all those people happy (somehow) and everything else follows.
@half-bubble I do not believe for a second that private land owners are doing that. What I do believe is that MOST surveyors are terrible businessmen who have no clue of economics or the value of the service they provide. This is a generational problem in that they have been mentored by people who have no clue about economics and the value of the service they provide.
They are good technicians and good surveyors but they are terrible at business and until that is addressed nothing will change. The state societies rarely talk business at the technical seminars and I believe that needs to be on the schedule at every one. 2 day workshops about business at every technical conference.
The state societies seem paralyzed by the spectre of the beating that the Arkansas society took decades ago and they run screaming like a bunch of school girls at the merest mention of talking business. Heck some here even bring it up if anyone dares mention a price. The fear of that has been used as a bludgeon and has done a lot of harm and as a result people are terrified to even discuss prices, let alone business matters. That needs to change, people do not need to fear talking prices, just don't conspire to fix them. Sign a statement to that effect but we do need to talk business and prices and the sooner the better.
@Norman Oklahoma To suggest that traditional surveying is essentially scraping the bottom of the barrel monetarily there is some truth to that but I am convinced it is because many of our peers are such terrible businessmen and have no clue how to determine overhead, profit & loss, sinking funds, building profit into every job, charging enough to pay people a fair wage, and on and on. That is the reason why traditional surveying tends to pay less and if you address the business shortcomings it will correct itself. Sure the big time builders and developers have big pockets and it is natural to chase the big money but we all start doing what our name suggests and @half-bubble does have a point in that we have abandoned our base.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.
