What were they thinking #2

I like surveying, but its not what I do for a hobby; therefore, I refuse to do it for free, or even a small profit.?ÿ?ÿ

I will not "bid" for any job.?ÿ Either accept my price or go down the road.

@brian-allen

I avoid bidding, worked up two this year, turned down probably ten others. Really wish I had simply ignored this request. 

@brian-allen

Right on!  

@brian-allen

I don't get it.  What's the difference between bidding and submitting your price?

Posted by: @bstrand

What's the difference between bidding and submitting your price?

Bids are common where the scope of work is clear. (municipalities, corporations)

A price or quote provides a fixed price for a project subject to a specific time frame.

????

I spend time with the potential client in person or over the phone as long as they will keep telling me about the property and allow me to view it on GoggleEarth and a few other map sources and tax records to get a sense of what I am surveying and can give them a number to budget very quickly as I've been surveying land in this area since June 1974 and licensed since 1987 and have traveled down almost every byway, highway and critter trail and can remember where to go cross country and cross waterways on foot or not to tread at all better than I can tell you most of my client's last names or my grandchildren's birthdays unless they are in my phone or on my calender.

When the potential client can not do that by conversation or by sending me information by email or other means, I do not use much energy to get that job.

You say that you wanted the job. A couple of somebody elses wanted it more. Must be some job! What is it about this job that makes people want it so much??ÿ?ÿ

@mark-mayer

% of Profit & Available period of time to getrdone 

@bstrand

Bidding (IMHO), is the process of the client receiving the lowest price for the service and the surveyor putting a minimum value on their own worth just to "get the job".?ÿ It is essentially gambling.?ÿ The client is gambling that you underestimated the amount to perform the job (he is getting more?ÿin return for his money, ie - getting it a bargain price).?ÿ The surveyor is gambling that he/she has over-estimated what time, material, and expertise is necessary to provide the service (he is hoping to make a profit).

Submitting an estimated price when requested and when the professional feels it is appropriate (not a fixed price) is based on the value of the service provided, the estimated time, materials, and expertise needed to properly provide the needed service.?ÿ The final price is usually determined after?ÿthe job is complete.?ÿ As a result, the client gets a valuable, properly performed service (no incentive to "cut corners") and the surveyor provides that service at a price that guarantees professional satisfaction, profit, extra family time, sanity, and self-respect.?ÿ?ÿ

Professionals do not "bid".

?ÿ

@mark-mayer

I was very interested in the work cause it was stitching together three ROS done from my office. I think the low bidders don't understand the state statutes that control the project. I understand partly because I've finished a number of smaller similar jobs recently.

This one is 4 miles of divided highway right of way. Three off ramp areas, I figured 4-5 plats and 150 monuments (some in place and some that need to be set). A description and maps need to be filed and recorded, I gave what I considered a low, everything going smooth price. Not something I would usually do, now once I heard the low bids I figure this will be the last rodeo for me bidding these type of jobs. 

It's kinda like the old days and forest service work, you had to send your bid to the regional office 200 miles away, they always went for pennies, I asked one guy who did one of them why so cheap; he told me he just wanted to get away for the summer and spend it in the mountains. He went belly up soon after. And that was during a big boom time. Needless to say, after a couple of times when those bid requests came in they went into the thanks but no thanks file. 

Why the low bids? One firm is usually really high, but this could be turned into a job where you get your name in the papers and I know they like that, the other guy is always low, how he stays in business is a mystery, I wouldn't have bid it that low using 1970's pricing. 

@brian-allen

Ah, so bidding is an insult.?ÿ Maybe if surveyors would respond with bids that are 3-4 times their estimate then people would stop soliciting bids.

@bstrand

Given to me by a mentor many moons ago ... see below regarding "bids" and "bidding" ???? 

Construction Definitions:

Contractor - A gambler who never gets to shuffle, cut or deal.

Bid Opening - A poker game in which the losing hand wins.

Bid - A wild guess carried out to two decimal places.

Low Bidder - A contractor who is wondering what he left out.

Engineer's Estimate - The cost of construction in heaven.

Project Manager - The conductor of an orchestra in which every musician is in a different union.

Critical Path Method - A management technique for losing your shirt under perfect control.

OSHA - A protective coating made by half-baking a mixture of fine print, red tape, split hairs and baloney-

               usually applied at random with a shotgun.

Strike - An effort to increase egg production by strangling the chicken.

Delayed Payment - A tourniquet applied at the pockets.

Completion Date - The point at which liquidated damages begin.

Liquidated Damages - A penalty for failing to achieve the impossible.

Auditor - Person who goes in after the war is lost and bayonets the wounded.

Lawyer - Person who goes in after the auditors to strip the bodies.

@bstrand

I'm with Brian on this one.  We never supply bids.  In fact, in most instances its against state code to provide cost as part of a proposal and/or selection process due to the Brooks Act. 

I kindly send those looking for a bid to others that enjoy bidding.

@chuck-beresford

or

Bid Opening - A poker game in which the winning hand loses. 

@mightymoe

The game they play is called change orders:

• Our bid didn't include blah blah blah
• Oh, you wanted blah blah with that? That's going to be extra.
• We were not aware that blah was required, we will need to charge you more.

That's when you go back to the client, after it's all over, and say; My proposal included all of that and more. And you ended up spending more with Dewey Cheatem and Howe.

No, don't look at it that way. Now, they won't ask you for a bid again until their butt is in a crack and they know you are the one to pull it out regardless of the cost.?ÿ It's like loaning a deadbeat $10 bucks that you know will never pay you back, but it keeps them from asking you for money again.?ÿ?ÿ

@mightymoe

Ah, the old forest service work. I don't fondly remember them. 

@daniel-ralph

I ended up doing a couple of them, but I didn't bid them, they came to me as a sub. Two was enough.

@dougie

There is a hold on the job, the government can't decide if they want to actually do it. I'm really, really hoping they do go ahead with it. Someone wants to donate their work, they should be allowed to. Maybe they want to take it off their taxes as charity.