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What Happens To A Border When The River Changes Course?

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MarkSilver
(@mark-silver)
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Most excellent YouTube video:

 
Posted : December 27, 2020 6:27 pm
(@mike-marks)
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For the neophytes in the US, it's quite simple. Avulsive events and manmade events do not change boundaries.?ÿ Gradual accretion or reliction certainly does.

The contrary may be shown but in my experience if a waterway is your boundary you're at risk as the river chews its course into your property or vica versa adds acres to your favor.?ÿ Bottomland is worth contemplation when buying but look at the historic record and beware.

 
Posted : December 27, 2020 7:24 pm
paden-cash
(@paden-cash)
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And then there's the Rio Roxo or Red River for you all from higher latitudes.?ÿ The "south bank" was at one time an international border between France and Mexico.?ÿ Once the US bought out France it remained an international boundary eventually with the Republic of Texas.?ÿ When Texas semi-joined the Union the Red River stepped down to merely a boundary between two states.?ÿ Then they discovered oil and the legal poo began to fly.

In 1999 the US Congress passed the resolution creating The Red River Compact, taking effect in 2000.?ÿ In my younger years I tried to follow all the litigation-ad-infinitum.?ÿ My eyes glassed over about 15 years ago.?ÿ Here's a link for anyone that is having trouble sleeping:

Texas Oklahoma Boundary Controversies

I personally refuse to work in any Oklahoma section that borders the Red River.?ÿ This is only because I probably won't live long enough to see an end to it all. 😉

?ÿ

 
Posted : December 27, 2020 9:55 pm
(@lurker)
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I think I might inquire as to the need of a Vice President in Liberland.

 
Posted : December 28, 2020 12:44 pm
paden-cash
(@paden-cash)
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@lurker

According to Wikipedia there are two vice-presidents.?ÿ No doubt because of the vast expanse of the country..or maybe Vit JedliŽka just needed a driver. 😉

?ÿ

 
Posted : December 28, 2020 12:57 pm

(@bob-plumb-2)
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@mike-marks exactly true, Louisiana to be different calls it slow and imperceptible change.

 
Posted : February 25, 2021 7:33 pm
rover83
(@rover83)
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Posted by: @paden-cash

And then there's the Rio Roxo or Red River for you all from higher latitudes.?ÿ The "south bank" was at one time an international border between France and Mexico.?ÿ Once the US bought out France it remained an international boundary eventually with the Republic of Texas.?ÿ When Texas semi-joined the Union the Red River stepped down to merely a boundary between two states.?ÿ Then they discovered oil and the legal poo began to fly.

That boundary dispute led to the adoption of the gradient boundary method in Texas, which is one of the most interesting (and oddest) things I have seen while surveying. I went to a couple of seminars that explained the method and how to conduct a survey using it, but never thought I would get to run one.

But it wasn't too long before I jumped ship and worked the Eagle Ford shale play for a few years. Sure enough, when there are loads of oil & gas money at stake, there's enough money left over to run a gradient boundary and prove where that line lies...

 
Posted : February 26, 2021 8:49 am
(@warrenward)
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@paden-cashi was in your office that one day and saw you decline to take a river boundary case. I could tell you understood the pitfalls having learned the hard way

 
Posted : February 27, 2021 6:50 pm
paden-cash
(@paden-cash)
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@warrenward

That doesn't surprise me but I don't remember the specifics.?ÿ Surveys like that never end.

Most of the time you can scare away potential clients by throwing out some numbers from previous surveys.?ÿ But ever once in a while there will be one that has very deep pockets and will take you up on it.?ÿ Like I've said many times; find a younger surveyor, I don't have enough years left in me to take on a survey on the Red River.?ÿ 😉

 
Posted : February 27, 2021 10:13 pm
 jph
(@jph)
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Hall's Stream in Pittsburg NH looks like it's changed course since the international border with Canada was established, without the border changing.?ÿ?ÿ

There are parts of Canada that are on the east side and parts of the US on the west.?ÿ

 
Posted : February 28, 2021 6:59 am

jitterboogie
(@jitterboogie)
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We did a edge to edge survey of the Rio Grande for the DOI in 2015-16.

The edge has meandered and receded quite a bit over the past century.

The monuments and extents of the banks are still within the original pins and beyond in some places.

Its the DOI. That said they can always invoke eminent domain.

 
Posted : February 28, 2021 8:35 am
 jph
(@jph)
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Hall's Stream in Pittsburg NH looks like it's changed course since the international border with Canada was established, without the border changing.?ÿ?ÿ

There are parts of Canada that are on the east side and parts of the US on the west.?ÿ

 
Posted : February 28, 2021 10:27 am