Well somebody is way cheaper than me.

If every girl in the bar goes home with you, find a higher class bar...

thebionicman, post: 335514, member: 8136 wrote: If every girl in the bar goes home with you, find a higher class bar...

😀

If only it was that easy.

I'm wondering if the economy has changed. This is relatively new.

One of Dan Beardslee's maxims was that there can only be one lowest cost provider in any market. Everyone else has to compete on some other basis.

When someone tells you that you have been outbid I think that it is OK to ask by who, and by how much. Call it market research. I don't think it's OK to then match the low bidders price.

I also think it would be alright to call up the non-client a few weeks later to find out how things went.

When they call back you can always offer to fix it if the low bidder does not perform as expected.

We had one - 12 lot subdivision with Conservation and Planning. $5k per lot or $60k for retracement (or original survey), preliminary, definitive, road design, construction layout, asbuilting. The other firm was $5k for all of it. The client called and we advised he get an iron-clad contract and go with the lower number. He did not get an iron-clad contract and called us when the change work orders had him up to $80k or $90k with the question of how much it would be for us to fix it.

$60k.

Sometimes people just outright lie to us. Don't believe everything they are telling you. Hang in there. The right jobs will come to you.

I haven't secured a job in a couple weeks as well. I'm starting to wonder what's going on? There are only 3 or 4 of us here surveying and I know that one guy doesn't have it all. I don't think people are getting surveys. They just don't have the money.

I can remember a company from 30+ years ago that had the desire to be the only survey company left standing. The owner had decent assets in the bank and decided to undercut every surveyor around and started his campaign.

Soon it became apparent that he could not keep up with his new promises and began losing as many clients as his new campaign had gained because he was overbooked.

In the end there was not one surveyor that was affected by his plan.

Good work and good product will make your business model work.

This 2 week time frame a couple of you have quoted corresponds to a recent downturn of the stock market. It also comes as summer ends. Some people may just be waiting to see how things settle out.

spledeus, post: 335522, member: 3579 wrote: When they call back you can always offer to fix it if the low bidder does not perform as expected.

We had one - 12 lot subdivision with Conservation and Planning. $5k per lot or $60k for retracement (or original survey), preliminary, definitive, road design, construction layout, asbuilting. The other firm was $5k for all of it. The client called and we advised he get an iron-clad contract and go with the lower number. He did not get an iron-clad contract and called us when the change work orders had him up to $80k or $90k with the question of how much it would be for us to fix it.

$60k.

If his BS radar didn't go off at one firm quoting a price less than 10% of another one, he must not be a very good businessman.

One problem around here is that folks ask real estate agents how much a survey would cost -- the agent tells them what the last Mortgage Loan Inspection they saw cost or what the cheapest survey they ever saw cost and the client then calls me and expects me to do a survey for that. When I begin to educate them about what a survey is and why it costs more money they tune out as though the real estate agent must surely have all the answers.

I also think Holy Cow is right -- a lot of what callers tell us is outright lies -- or wishful thinking about what they think another surveyor told them.

What seems to happen far too frequently is that eight calls show up one week and none come along for three or four weeks. Every person's need for a survey seems to different from that of the other guy that just called thirty minutes earlier. It's no different than restaurants that are overflowing with customers at noon one day and nearly dead the next three days in a row.

Surveying is a strange business. Most large ownership clients that want a simple title upon death transfer when subdividing (+5 acre parcels so no subdivision act involved) their holdings to heirs are stunned by the survey cost, and sales of existing urban or long standing rural parcels usually involve no survey. If brother John gets screwed, who cares? If you're buying Lot 10 of xxx subdivision who cares, driveways, fences, etc. clearly delineate dominion. Cheap surveying to be given to the lowballers and let them assume the risk which is low.
.
OTOH, a subdivision or parcel map where a big parcel is subdivided into a new higher density community, you bet a surveyor should be onboard, for the Subdivision Map, accurate topo, title issues, layout and earthwork concerns, construction staking of utilities, asbuilts after construction, proper monumentation, the list goes on. Most major developers realise this and have onboard surveyors to handle the particulars. That's where the big money is in surveying.

Surveying is a strange business. Most large ownership clients that want a simple title upon death transfer when subdividing (+5 acre parcels so no subdivision act involved) their holdings to heirs are stunned by the survey cost, and sales of existing urban or long standing rural parcels usually involve no survey. If brother John gets screwed, who cares? If you're buying Lot 10 of xxx subdivision who cares, driveways, fences, etc. clearly delineate dominion. Cheap surveying to be given to the lowballers and let them assume the risk which is low.
.
OTOH, a subdivision or parcel map where a big parcel is subdivided into a new higher density community, you bet a surveyor should be onboard, for the Subdivision Map, accurate topo, title issues, layout and earthwork concerns, construction staking of utilities, asbuilts after construction, proper monumentation, the list goes on. Most major developers realise this and have onboard surveyors to handle the particulars. That's where the big money is in surveying.

Mike Marks, post: 335565, member: 1108 wrote: Surveying is a strange business. Most large ownership clients that want a simple title upon death transfer when subdividing (+5 acre parcels so no subdivision act involved) their holdings to heirs are stunned by the survey cost, and sales of existing urban or long standing rural parcels usually involve no survey. If brother John gets screwed, who cares? If you're buying Lot 10 of xxx subdivision who cares, driveways, fences, etc. clearly delineate dominion. Cheap surveying to be given to the lowballers and let them assume the risk which is low.
.
OTOH, a subdivision or parcel map where a big parcel is subdivided into a new higher density community, you bet a surveyor should be onboard, for the Subdivision Map, accurate topo, title issues, layout and earthwork concerns, construction staking of utilities, asbuilts after construction, proper monumentation, the list goes on. Most major developers realise this and have onboard surveyors to handle the particulars. That's where the big money is in surveying.

I've found that the best clients are always going to be those who depend on your work product to produce theirs. They are the ones who are first in line to pay a premium for a quality product. Heck, I have one long term client at a top ENR 500 engineering firm, who I do about $250K worth of work a year for, that not infrequently calls me and says I'm not charging enough and I should raise my fee 10% and reissue my proposal.

James Fleming, post: 335572, member: 136 wrote: I've found that the best clients are always going to be those who depend on your work product to produce theirs. They are the ones who are first in line to pay a premium for a quality product. Heck, I have one long term client at a top ENR 500 engineering firm, who I do about $250K worth of work a year for, that not infrequently calls me and says I'm not charging enough and I should raise my fee 10% and reissue my proposal.

There is something very not right about what you just said. Where is that extra 10% coming from? Oh sure, it's all la la la, more bucks, who gives a @#$%.

You're a 1% er Fleming.

And Brad?
You gotta stop liking all this random bull@#$%, man.
I had to stop following you 'cause you like any damn thing that comes along.

Don

Don Blameuser, post: 335576, member: 30 wrote: There is something very not right about what you just said. Where is that extra 10% coming from? Oh sure, it's all la la la, more bucks, who gives a ****.

There is a lot (I believe the technical financial term is "a @#$%load") more money on the table at most real estate deals and land development projects then most surveyors realize.

If these projects can't go ahead without my input and participation excuse me for asking for my rightful place at the table and not just sitting under the table like a dog hoping for crumbs, a pat on the head, and a 'good boy'.

I do about 3-4 estimates a day most weeks. Granted, they are not large jobs, but numerous small jobs with good clients that pay mean more to me than a large one which uses the company as a loan institution. If a potential client starts out with " I got an estimate from surveyor xyz and it is $$$, I need to know if you can be cheaper" I usually tell them to go with that surveyor so I don't waste my time doing the estimate. I'm surprised how many times they will in turn, try to talk me into giving them an estimate even though I tell them we won't do the work for the amount they just quoted me. Sometimes the quote is cheaper than what it costs to draft and record a survey. I keep my estimate sheets for about 3 years and have had to pull some out and do the work and my original estimate amount to fix the cheaper surveyor's errors. The last one I did was for an elevation certification. When I asked why she didn't have us do the original work, she said that the other surveyor was $100 cheaper. Really? He had her elevations on the wrong datum and the structure located in a V zone (Coastal) when it is located about 125 miles from the beach. She paid about $1000 more for the insurance premium than it needed to be. I'm done ranting now, carry on.