Question: Do you file a record of survey every time that you set a rebar&cap or any other monument that isn't the original? (Per RCW)
As policy, we follow the RCW as described in the question below, but give me a metal detector, a shovel, 10 minutes, and any block in Seattle, and I will find a dozen rebars with caps from a dozen different firms, from large to small, from reputable to questionable. And, BTW they will have LS#'s issued after the recording act.
This is something we run into all the time, we know a survey demands a record of survey, and after drafting and recording, the cost is often doubled. Another firm gives a quote that cannot possibly include the cost of recording a survey, there probably isn't even an exhibit created, much less recorded.
Background:
(Fall 2011 Board Pubilcation)
Question
In recent research I studied a recorded plat that states
iron pipes have been set for the lot corners. The
controlling monuments shown on said plat exist and
are within acceptable measurement limits. There is no
evidence of encroachment, gaps or overlaps on the lot
I am surveying. I did not find any existing lot corners
and set rebars for the corners. Do I need to record a
survey?
Answer
YES. What you describe is a discrepancy from what
is found in the public record and what your survey
revealed. The recording of your survey would create
a connection between the information on the plat
(iron pipes) and what subsequent surveyors would
find on the ground (your rebars). In this case, the
documentation of the change from pipes to rebars is an
important link in the chain of evidence.
RCW 58.09.090(d)(i) … a “discrepancy” is: “A
non-existing or displaced original or replacement
monument from which the parcel is defined and which
non-existence or displacement has not been previously
revealed in the public record.”
Further research:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=58.09
I always file a record of survey when we set a monument. This helps perpetuate a monument of record trail of evidence.
Short answer Yes.
I want others to follow in my footsteps but without a filed survey how do they know what path I took?
Maybe I walked a straight path or Maybe I took three steps, then a hop-scotch left, then back two, then forward to the closure.
I love the fact that I work in Recording states. It allows me an opportunity to put my professional judgement down on paper for all to see and hopefully if I am ever judged on that, others will follow the same path.
> I always file a record of survey when we set a monument. This helps perpetuate a monument of record trail of evidence.
Only having licenses in States with strong recording statute(s), I don't understand how boundary surveying works in non-recording States. Your work is a secret only known to you and your client?
We do a survey. We file a plat. Period. Filed one a couple weeks back where we found all corners in place.
> Only having licenses in States with strong recording statute(s), I don't understand how boundary surveying works in non-recording States. Your work is a secret only known to you and your client?
Yes, sometimes. Deciding to record or not is not up to me, it is up to the client (not talking about subdivisions or other plats that need approval).
> Filed one a couple weeks back where we found all corners in place.
I'm curious as to how a survey gets recorded in your state.
In Washington you are required to take an 18" x 24" sheet to the county Auditor/Recorder (up until a few months ago, all counties required mylar) and pay them $128 + $5 for each additional sheet. The document needs to have all the required information and formatting or the Auditor won't accept it. The Auditor will forward a copy to the State DNR.
It's been over 20 years since I surveyed in Nebraska, and I wasn't licensed there, but I seem to remember it being a little simpler. You could use whatever size sheet you felt necessary and I don't think there were any fees involved (I could be wrong though). Most lot surveys were done on 8 1/2" x 11" and yes, we did a lot of surveys and recorded them, where we found all the pins. When I was in Nebraska, you didn't need to put your LS number on your corner so everyone just used pipe or rebar.
Dugger
Simple answer, YES. Washington is a recording state. It is the law and I would assume to be taken to the board if I did not due so.
> Question: Do you file a record of survey every time that you set a rebar&cap or any other monument that isn't the original? (Per RCW)
The board has clearly stated its position and if you get caught not filing you should expect to be disciplined. A lot of guys are rolling the dice every day anyway.
Although I have been licensed in Washington for 11 years I am yet to set a boundary marker in the state. My work is mostly engineering surveying related anyway and for some reason my bids on boundary work in Clark County are always too high. Go figure.
Depends on the county, Can file a permanent recoed in the Register of Deeds of for about $8 unless it is bigger than legal size. Then it is about $20. Most merely add them into the massive files in the survey/public works/road & bridge office where the vast majority of surveys are found from the past 150 years.
> Depends on the county, Can file a permanent record in the Register of Deeds of for about $8 unless it is bigger than legal size. Then it is about $20. Most merely add them into the massive files in the survey/public works/road & bridge office where the vast majority of surveys are found from the past 150 years.
That there is the key, the past 150 years.
Before the Survey recording act of 1973, Washington State Surveyors didn't record their surveys. There is a good source here: DNR Public Land Survey office Overview
And you can find a lot of good information here: DNR Public Land Survey office Reference Guides and downloads
Most of the cold calls I get, get a lot colder when they find out what it will cost. The only people that hire me are those that REALLY need to know where the boundaries are. Either they believe their neighbor is encroaching or a government agency requires that they hire a licensed professional to prove to them that they are in compliance with their project.
If someone hires me to survey their lot in an old plat, I can usually find enough centerline monumentation to ensure that I am working within the geometry of the plat. But this isn't always the case, a lot of the time there is no record of what was set and you take your chances with what you find. You'll sometimes find other surveyors caps or even bare rebar or pipes at the property corners. In most of the older plats, if the property corners were marked, they were marked with a wooden stake. But nothing will be indicated on the plat. So at a minimum, I need to spend a half day doing field work. Even if I find all four corners, I'll need to verify that they fit the centerline monuments. Now I've got to draft this up on an 18" x 24" with all of the required information. Once you develop a template, it isn't to bad but I still need to show how I surveyed the lot. Now I take it to the county auditor pay the $128 or $133 fee and the survey is now recorded.
What would you charge your client for that effort?
If Hole Digger surveys a lot in an old plat in Kansas and finds all the pins, he can find a couple more to tie in his survey. (When I was in Nebraska, a 3-man crew could get this field work done in less an hour). Now he drafts this up on legal size paper and sends it off with an $8 or $20 fee.
What would you charge your client for that effort?
I hope this doesn't sound like I'm complaining, I'm not. Sure, it's frustrating when potential clients say they'll call you back if they decide to go with a survey. But they never do. We're not going to fix that by not recording our survey. In fact, we're going to make it worse. If everyone complied with the state regulations we'd eventually find it easier to do a simple lot survey.
Douglas Casement, WA PLS
RCW 58.09.090
When record of survey not required.
(1) A record of survey is not required of any survey:
(a) When it has been made by a public officer in his or her official capacity and a reproducible copy thereof has been filed with the county engineer of the county in which the land is located. A map so filed shall be indexed and kept available for public inspection. A record of survey shall not be required of a survey made by the United States bureau of land management. A state agency conducting surveys to carry out the program of the agency shall not be required to use a land surveyor as defined by this chapter;
(b) When it is of a preliminary nature;
(c) When a map is in preparation for recording or shall have been recorded in the county under any local subdivision or platting law or ordinance;
(d) When it is a retracement or resurvey of boundaries of platted lots, tracts, or parcels shown on a filed or recorded and surveyed subdivision plat or filed or recorded and surveyed short subdivision plat in which monuments have been set to mark all corners of the block or street centerline intersections, provided that no discrepancy is found as compared to said recorded information or information revealed on other subsequent public survey map records, such as a record of survey or city or county engineer's map. If a discrepancy is found, that discrepancy must be clearly shown on the face of the required new record of survey. For purposes of this exemption, the term discrepancy shall include:
(i) A nonexisting or displaced original or replacement monument from which the parcel is defined and which nonexistence or displacement has not been previously revealed in the public record;
(ii) A departure from proportionate measure solutions which has not been revealed in the public record;
(iii) The presence of any physical evidence of encroachment or overlap by occupation or improvement; or
(iv) Differences in linear and/or angular measurement between all controlling monuments that would indicate differences in spatial relationship between said controlling monuments in excess of 0.50 feet when compared with all locations of public record: That is, if these measurements agree with any previously existing public record plat or map within the stated tolerance, a discrepancy will not be deemed to exist under this subsection.
(2) Surveys exempted by foregoing subsections of this section shall require filing of a record of corner information pursuant to RCW 58.09.040(2).
