Going through different versions of the manufacturer's software it seems that some software packages include the ability of using Angle-Right orientation still and some do not. Personally, I used TDS and a few other software packages that always had angle-right as an options but this started when he instruments still had a upper and lower motion that eventually changed into a Hold function on the horizontal angle that basically worked the same as if the instrument had a circle clamp. Now none of the high-end total stations have a motion clamp or a Hold function. Everything is done in the background inside the field software running the data collector. I used the angle-right orientation for years and that was what I was comfortable with for my field work. I have since talked to many surveyors who have always orientated their instrument circle to the actual azimuth between the control points they are using. The method of using the azimuth for the orientation now makes more sense to me. The new total stations are directional instruments not true repeating instruments even though electronically an angular value can be "frozen" and the angle is repeated.
My question.... How many surveyors out there are only willing to use angle-right because that is what they have always used and how many would be willing to change?
i have grown accustomed to angle right. i began in azimuths. now, angle right seems more intuitive in the field. for ex., in stakeout, angle right is a good sanity check for visual expectation, where azimuth is not.
john hamilton would be a good one to weigh in on this, if you're looking for a heavy hitter with respect to angle measurement
I thought angle-right was the preferred way like running a closed loop traverse clockwise.
I turn sets to the right just like I did with a T2 or DKM1. I do like azimuths for stakeout. On route surveys I have used deflection angles but don't like using them also have accumulated angles to the right with a two plate instrument, no problems with that.
jud
> My question.... How many surveyors out there are only willing to use angle-right because that is what they have always used and how many would be willing to change?
prior to onboard data collection, angle-right / left was pretty much your only option. Nowadays, depends on the technology - routines / programs - you're using an instrument for. point being, it really doesn't matter to me whether its left or right angle from zeroed value or from set azimuth / bearing whatever. it all works the same
Eric
Angle-Right is the preferred method for "counter-clockwise" traverses and Angle-Left is for clockwise traverses. This will maintain the N-2*180, or you could do the N+2*180.
In any event, angle right is all we use. Mixing and matching could (would) result in either some bad ties or corners set wrong.
We had a loop where the instrument got shifted to angle left (the meters/feet was also the Right/Left on the GTS303). No problem right? Wrong. When you're running close to 180, it's nearly impossible to see it and that's where it bit us.
For me, I don't care. I've done surveys in deflection angles just to do it for ease on the pipeline maps, but you need to be aware of it so it doesn't eat your lunch at the end of the day.
Control
In older days, the instruments did what surveyors told them to do. If they wanted angles right, that's how the instrument was operated, etc.
Today's instruments tell the operator what to do. "Aim to first object and press ENTER..." are commands operators are exposed to and they respond and act accordingly.
As well, one could compare it to the emigration-immigration issue. When people from one country went to another, they learned the language and culture of the new country. Now, people crossing the Rio Grande tell the people in the new country what to do and what language to use.
The instrument manufacturers tell the operators what to do today. They do not speak your language. If someone in their company or institution decides you should speak their language and not use angles right, you won't be given the option.
"Control!"
Control
Some of my students moan and groan when I insist that they use T-16s. I refuse to teach Elementary Surveying with electronic instruments. They have to learn to think for themselves and understand how to do it manually before they "graduate" to the digital stuff.
They still turn angles manually (triple repetition sets) and do defection angles for laying out curves, among other ancient practices.
That because I am in control.
🙂
Control
> In older days, the instruments did what surveyors told them to do. If they wanted angles right, that's how the instrument was operated, etc.
>
> Today's instruments tell the operator what to do. "Aim to first object and press ENTER..." are commands operators are exposed to and they respond and act accordingly.
>
> As well, one could compare it to the emigration-immigration issue. When people from one country went to another, they learned the language and culture of the new country. Now, people crossing the Rio Grande tell the people in the new country what to do and what language to use.
>
> The instrument manufacturers tell the operators what to do today. They do not speak your language. If someone in their company or institution decides you should speak their language and not use angles right, you won't be given the option.
>
> "Control!"
Oh...come on ML, what happened when the english populated the new country (USA)? Did they learn Cherokee (or maybe Indian since that is where they thought they landed)? No. I kind of think that if this county became overwhelmed with a majority of spanish-speaking mexicans, spanish/spanglish would become the national language. Don't you think that, in general, the minority languages need to learn the language of the majority if they want to get by? Don't you think that immigrants often lived in the same 'hood in NYC and spoke the old language to their neighbors?
Didn't you have to learn to read the vernier in the older days?
A bientôt,
(or "so long"...if I must);-)
Tom
Control
> Don't you think that, in general, the minority languages need to learn the language of the majority if they want to get by? Don't you think that immigrants often lived in the same 'hood in NYC and spoke the old language to their neighbors?
>
> Didn't you have to learn to read the vernier in the older days?
>
> A bientôt,
> (or "so long"...if I must);-)
> Tom
It won't matter now--There's an APP For That
😉
Tiene un gran día, yo se que si!
Control
Deflection angles for curves? Geez I have done a ton of easements lately that follow ranch roads and rough gravel roads. I still use degree of curve to calculate them. Just can't help it. Now we get plans from enginerds with 5000' or 1200' radius'. WHAT THE HECK is going on? How would I lay that thing out.
Control
> How would I lay that thing out.
Sit on the PC, back-sight the tangent, with the scope inverted, with zero. Flop the scope and turn the deflection angles, if it was to the right and measure the chords. If it was to the left, subtract from 360. Or you could sight the PT with 1/2 delta.....
Did it that way for years. If you couldn't see all of the points, you could sit on a point set and back-sight the PC with the deflection it took to get to that point and continue, checking into the PT.
Control
Yeah, you could fly down a road, but you needed three people.
There is even some way to lay out a road without an instrument; but I never did it or quite understood it.
Control
:good:
Control
If you try to zero a Leica in the reverse face it won't let you.
Topcon doesn't care, boss wants zero, boss gets zero.
Now I'm using a 1200 series Leica, a beautiful instrument mechanically but I can't zero it unless I put in a setup and backsight. WTF is this sh...? I have to use the DC to zero it.
Come to think of it, I don't think I could setup and manually turn half deltas on deflection angles with that Leica. I could do it with my Topcon because I can zero it, it's pretty straightforward to use manually.
Hi,
Angle-right here in Belgium, and we measure them in gons. 400 gons for a full cirlce.
At school we did have some old Leica's that still had ° ' " readings.
chr.
Control
Turn to the right, read to the left,
turn to the left, read to the right.
:coffee:
Control
My Trimble S6 does not even have a face plate on it (it was bought before I got to this company). We have to use the data collector to do anything. And if the antenna breaks or gets left at the office, we are SOL.
