Trimble R8s or R10s

Pro. The 10 is sexy and lighter. It's just more fun.

Con. The 10 is very finicky about cell service AND distance to the reference station. The more bars and the closer to home, the better.

The 8's are rock solid and never fail to perform, but the 10 is very agile and give as good of results as the 10. We did have to create some new procedures for using it over the 8's, but that's any new gear.

I'd buy another one right now.

I have an R10 if your in the market Kris.

One advantage of the R10 is the opportunity to mate it up with the V10 if the mood strikes.

I believe that Trimble has come out with an adapter so the V10 can now be used with an R8. They realized they were missing out on a big market by limiting them to only R10's.

You can now use a V10 with an R8 as well as a TSC3.

R8 Pros - Rock solid, LEDs easier to see, cheaper

R8 Cons - No XFill or tilt sensors

R10 Pros - Smaller, lighter, more durable, better keyboard, better battery, Hz and V precisions displayed are more realistic, XFill, tilt sensors

R10 Cons - Can be a little finicky (helps to know about the Reset SV Tracking command), tilt sensors can be a pain.

The two big pluses of the R10, among everything I listed, are XFill and the tilt sensors. The Automated Tilt Measurement is absolutely awesome on a topo once you get used to it, and XFill is a life saver if you're in an area with sketchy radio reception. I'm sure we've all had that ditch that we lose radio as soon as we enter it; XFill fills those gaps seamlessly.

I could see where Compensated Points would be huge as well, but I've not had much success getting that to work.

The thing about the R10 is you have to embrace it, learn it, and use the features to your advantage. Otherwise the stuff that differentiates it will just seem like a pain in the a$$ and you might as well save the cash and get the R8.

Well said, Sir. :good:

> I have an R10 if your in the market Kris.

If the market was a bit better, I'd be all over it. 🙂 I may yet anyway, but not at least right now.

> Con. The 10 is very finicky about cell service AND distance to the reference station. The more bars and the closer to home, the better.

Kris, is that your biggest complaint about the R10? For now and in the foreseeable future, we will still be using external radios.

Lee

How accurate is that XFill?

Could you tie a monument with it and get good results?

Lee

Very accurate, we will generally locate it and then check it with a PPK session, I have not seen any difference between an Xfill and a RTK location, also that tilt function is really useful. If you think about there are all kinds of uses for it. Con with R10 is price, that's all I can think of. The digital bubble is nice also, but it can be a pain when you run topo.

> > Con. The 10 is very finicky about cell service AND distance to the reference station. The more bars and the closer to home, the better.
>
> Kris, is that your biggest complaint about the R10? For now and in the foreseeable future, we will still be using external radios.

Yes, that is the biggest complaint. I love the 10 and me, my 10, and my VX can kick some serious butt.

Rob

The XFill is extremely accurate but it degrades over time. The spec is that it will degrade and then drop out after 5 minutes; in my experience, it remains at or near RTK accuracy for up to 3 minutes.

The beauty of it is that you only need to catch the radio for a couple of epochs and the "clock" resets.

XFill is using Trimble's RTX satellite corrections, which broadcast orbital and clock corrections (aka States Space Representation)and via subscription will get you 4cm RMS in real time with an R10 without the need for a base. Apparently the R10 always tracks these corrections, regardless of whether you subscribe; in an RTK survey they kick in when the radio drops out.

Rob

As to tying a monument... I would usually want to do that using an Observed Control Point, but if I HAD to use XFill because of the conditions I'd try to get on it as fast as I could once I lost radio and do a series of short occupations over a period of time (obviously resetting XFill each time).

One of the things I like in Access - not that no one else does this - is the ability to average points in real time and see the deviation from and standard deviation of the weighted mean. I also like (with the R10) that you can reset the SV tracking, which forces a complete loss of lock and restarts the positional computation. With these modern receivers, it isn't enough to "dump" the antenna if you want a truly independent solution; I tell our R8 crews to shut the rover all the way off in between observations of a control point.

There's a lot of debate here about RTK and accuracy, repeatability, etc. I can tell you that I once observed two control points with an R10 12 times apiece over a period of a little over an hour, changing the orientation of the rover rod each time. When we tied the one that the gun was going to be set up on into our level loop it closed 0.007'.

We use either UHF radios or VRS corrections routed through the collector via an AT&T MiFi. I've never used the R10s internal modem but it does open up some interesting possibilities; it can even be used as a mobile hot spot in a pinch.

Rob

We lose lock and shoot all points (critical) three times and review the deviations, all from different initializations and re-initalizing in different locations and coming back in.

Works awesome.

I use the internal modem, works great. Nice being able to connect via the web interface from anywhere and configure it, check the battery, download files, etc. It will send emails (low battery, position change, etc) and can ftp the files at the end of each session. Since AT&T makes you get a 5 GB plan, using that allotment up is never a problem. I guess you could if you were collecting long therm at 1s and sending the files it could use it up, but normal use never will. And you can use it as a hotspot as well, easy to setup.

Rob

As a Trimble Dealer we are often asked which one to purchase by our customers. All of you have nailed the differences between R8's and the R10's except my favorite one.
The R10's have a different initializing engine and process. As soon as it has enough satellites it gives you a real position which only takes a few seconds.
All RTK initialization's in the past went from Autonomous, Float, Fixed.
The R10 is either initialized or un-initialized. Once initialized (in about 3-4") the position regardless of canopy or conditions will display your real position that is repeatable. This puts the decision back in the hands of the surveyor whether to accept the position or not for the type of work you are doing. With the R8s and all other GPS units on the market once you begin to go from fixed to float you have no idea what you actually have for position unless you continue to check back into it with other methods.
It really comes down to performance and the type of surveying you are doing. For those of us in the Pacific NW obstructions like Trees, canyons and just plain lousy conditions most of the year the R10 has been an outstanding answer.
I generally lean towards the R10 for all of the reasons stated by you all and the performance reports from our customers. Price is a consideration as is the added advantage of getting the job done faster with better results.

PS: did you know you can get an R10 for the same price as the R8? If you ask your local dealer for the R8LT (light) it comes without the compensator but has all of the other advantages of the R10. Also, the R10's have a 2W radio instead of the R8 .5W
JSW

Rob

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there's no XFill with an R10 LT. We had to take delivery of several of them in 12/13 because "real" R10's weren't available, and subsequently have them upgraded. There's a little more going on there than just the tilt sensor.

Just wanted to necro-post an old thread.

Any new info to add over the last year now that the R10 has some time under it's belt?