A long time builder client contacted me recently about some commercial layout work in Moore, Ok. He WAS retired but the tornado damage/ rebuild has coaxed him out of retirement "one more time for old time'$ sake". He's got a little strip mall with a Subway Sammich Shop as an anchor to build. I reluctantly agreed to furnish his layout for him, if he could provide CAD files.
I get the files from guess who? The architect. :poop:
I've got a copy of the topo and boundary provided by a buddy of mine that prepared it a few months ago. The property is actually 384' deep, from the section line. With a 50' RW that leaves 334' net. This screwy arky-teck has got the property 384' deep from the RW. It makes a big difference where the building pad is located.
I called the builder and explained I needed either a correct CAD file or a hard-copy of some approved plans to locate the building properly. He called the architect and was told "that small a mix-up didn't need anything redrawn, the surveyor should know what to do with it". I told the builder to have the architect call me.
I'm anxiously awaiting that dogasslickingmotherpucker to call me...this is gonna be the most fun I've had all week. B-)
Architect did a site plan ( first big issue ) for a school probably 41 Acres of Grading . Got the files and something did not look correct with the topo/boundary and the Site design . I told him the site design did not plot the correct and scale was a hair off on all the site dimension . Told me to use what he gave me . I copied all conversation to the General Contractor . The plans were so generic that there were really no dimension to compare to except the boundary and it was plotting correct and listed correct in the cad file . Until I received the building plans . I punch up the footprint and guess what it did not match the site plan by a good amount .And did not fit the pad that was graded based on the site plan . So I call a meeting and all hell is breaking lose . Rough grading was well under way . Was not good for Architect . The whole site was to small . Had to fix a mess . But i told him it was screwed up .
Turned out the Architect merged the site design to the topo/boundary at some off scale It was just enough that it was hard to see but over 40 acres was a bunch.
My sympathies...
I can never figure out why architects think that they can prepare site plans. Mine, from that other thread, has the proposed finish grade up against the house shown as 6 inches higher than the top of concrete foundation, for a 150 year old house that's being relocated onto this new foundation.
I just don't get it...
Of all the locals preparing site plans, the best I know is a Landscape Architect. He is also a darn good businessman.
I think one of the reasons Architects get a hard time from Surveyors is simple. We don't see most of what they do. It's only when they bleed over into something directly connected to us that we use their product. If you limit your contact to those working on the fringe of a Profession your experiences will give you a slanted picture...
My .02, Tom
Its not just site plans...
Have a large building layout project - 1,000's of points to set. Client (Contractor) instructs Architect to provide us with CAD file for STAKING purposes, as prints are woefully inadequate.
Attempt #1 - file only has half the column lines... contact Contractor who contacts Architect
Attempt #2 - new file from Architect - all column lines now present but entire drawing is about 2,000 feet northeast of site. Architect says "You did the site plan, you should be able to move our drawing back into place. I remind her that there are NO points in common in either drawing. She says "Well, just line up our columns with the structural's column lines."
Attempt #3 - get structural drawings - his stuff is about 2,000 feet SOUTHWEST of the site. He claims his match the location provided by the Architect - sends me the architect's file to prove it, and he is correct. Architect now says "Well, all you have to do is line everything up with the Geopier drawings.
Attempt #4 - get Geopier drawings & discover they have broken the building into 4 discreet areas with no overlap whatsoever, and they are all randomly located with no reference to anything. Contact Contractor and tell him I am fed up, have spent a ton of time & $ trying to rectify this to no avail and am unwilling to proceed. Contractor notifies Owner - 2 hours later Architect provides PERFECTLY rectified drawing.
Attempt #5 - three days into staking mason tells crew chief that something is awry - distances are not checking. Crew checks a number of points, contacts me, I verify our locations with architects latest CAD file. Contractor calls Architect to see what is going on. Next day Architect contacts contractor and informs them the latest CAD file is all wrong. They sent us the Structural info when they meant to send the Architectural info. Discuss this with Contractor and we both concur that neither of us has ever seen the foundation information on the architectural plans rather than the structural plans. Mason concurs also. Contractor reminds Architect that original request was for STAKING purposes...
Attempt #6 - Architect sends new CAD file with the instructions to "check" everything! I am just short of exploding!!
Its not just site plans...
> Have a large building layout project - 1,000's of points to set. Client (Contractor) instructs Architect to provide us with CAD file for STAKING purposes, as prints are woefully inadequate.
>
> Attempt #1 - file only has half the column lines... contact Contractor who contacts Architect
>
> Attempt #2 - new file from Architect - all column lines now present but entire drawing is about 2,000 feet northeast of site. Architect says "You did the site plan, you should be able to move our drawing back into place. I remind her that there are NO points in common in either drawing. She says "Well, just line up our columns with the structural's column lines."
>
> Attempt #3 - get structural drawings - his stuff is about 2,000 feet SOUTHWEST of the site. He claims his match the location provided by the Architect - sends me the architect's file to prove it, and he is correct. Architect now says "Well, all you have to do is line everything up with the Geopier drawings.
>
> Attempt #4 - get Geopier drawings & discover they have broken the building into 4 discreet areas with no overlap whatsoever, and they are all randomly located with no reference to anything. Contact Contractor and tell him I am fed up, have spent a ton of time & $ trying to rectify this to no avail and am unwilling to proceed. Contractor notifies Owner - 2 hours later Architect provides PERFECTLY rectified drawing.
>
> Attempt #5 - three days into staking mason tells crew chief that something is awry - distances are not checking. Crew checks a number of points, contacts me, I verify our locations with architects latest CAD file. Contractor calls Architect to see what is going on. Next day Architect contacts contractor and informs them the latest CAD file is all wrong. They sent us the Structural info when they meant to send the Architectural info. Discuss this with Contractor and we both concur that neither of us has ever seen the foundation information on the architectural plans rather than the structural plans. Mason concurs also. Contractor reminds Architect that original request was for STAKING purposes...
>
> Attempt #6 - Architect sends new CAD file with the instructions to "check" everything! I am just short of exploding!!
As long as it looks pretty, the architect has done their job.
Its not just site plans...
There is another reason that I dislike construction staking,
there are those four little words that seem to always show up on layout plans "Verify in the Field".... sure removes the liability for them, I wonder where it goes?
Dtp
Its not just site plans...
Eons ago, I was the I-man working on lay out of an addition on a school. Plans had all the dimensions needed to do the layout, except 1, the starting distance from existing. Entire construction crew on hold. Finally got ahold of the architect, got the dimension, started layout crew now "off hold". When asked why that dimension was missing, he said he left it off so as to not confuse anybody! WTF!?!?
-JD-
Its not just site plans...
"Field Verify" is one we use a lot on utility work as the asbuilts for such are usually not existent.
-JD-
Its not just site plans...
I dont get it. why stake out a building without the sealed building plans and the sealed site plan? This would solve these type of issues. Staking from someone elses CAD file? Thats a recipe for disaster and simply not something I would ever do. Its our job as surveyors to identify and correct these problems before we begin staking.
This might be a joke too lame for most, but when I first got out of college (where I was in the last year where they taught hand drafting), and then having a few summers of work experience surveying, a joke occurred to me as follows: "Architects live in a parallel universe."
No further explanations from me, lol. Still see the punch line on a semi-regular basis too...
I have absolutely no respect for Architects.
Pure BS "profession".
