I'll guarantee you the know-it-all in the OP will lie to you if you accuse him/her of doing something wrong.
I grew up under the tutelage of my father who expected me to know as much as he did about anything we were working on together. Obviously, that could not be true. Nevertheless, I could expect to be punished in some fashion if I did not measure up to his standards.
That was so in-grained by the time I was old enough to leave home and set out on my own that I felt it essential to ask too many questions of my supervisor before making final decisions or working with some instrument with which I was somewhat unaccustomed. The very opposite of the braggodocious fellow in the OP. I'm certain I was looked down upon by some for appearing to be less capable than what I actually was. But, I absolutely wanted to do things correctly, based on someone else's definition of correct.
Breaking away and becoming my own boss eliminated that sense of inferiority.
My dad was very capable and understood much intuitively, but he was not tutorial. I learned by following him in tasks and seeing how he did it, but it was rare if he specifically taught me anything.
I recall being frustrated because we would be driving through the field counting bales of hay on each side of us, and I had trouble keeping track of which ones I'd counted as the point of view changed. He was disappointed in me, but didn't offer any tips on how do do it. It was just so obvious to him, I guess he couldn't see what my problem was. He probably had a better image memory than me and could rotate the picture as needed.
I'll guarantee you the know-it-all in the OP will lie to you if you accuse him/her of doing something wrong.
Yes. I have found the following interview question to be helpful:
"Describe a situation where you made a mistake that negatively impacted project budget or schedule (i.e., cost your employer time and money)." Follow ups can include: "How did you discover your mistake?" "How did you bring it to your employer's attention?" "How did you correct the mistake?"
@jitterboogie Maybe... Don't know about you, but I started making mistakes on day one (and in other jobs before surveying). Recognizing them for what they are and dealing with them effectively starts early. You are also demonstrating your culture to potential hires--they might like that if they're coming from some never-give-an-inch toxic waste dump.
I really like the technique of throwing out a few situations, usually involving problems that they might face in the prospective position, and ask them how they would handle it.
Have an open-ended dialogue that allows us to see their thought processes and gives us a glimpse of the skills and techniques that would be their go-to for solving problems.
Go from basic everyday stuff to some oddball, really tough problems. Not involving calculations or trying to extract a specific numerical answer, but how to think about executing tasks and tapping available resources.
I don't care whether someone can set up a tripod in thirty seconds flat, or if they can solve a vertical curve in their head, if their SOP is to set all control on the interior of a site that is about to get clear-cut, grubbed and excavated. Or if the office guy can develop a TIN crazy fast, but doesn't think the PLS needs to know right away that our recovered mons are totally different than the ROS from last year for the same parcel.
someone can set up a tripod in thirty seconds flat,
If I'd ever gotten that as a question I would turn around and walk out.
I tell people all the time with that mindset that if you're worried about 30 seconds then you have no idea how to handle a real crisis.
What do you do when you get a flat tire?
there goes your 30 seconds in orders of magnitude....
@rover83 great write up. None of us not even those who are licensed know everything about every aspect of surveying. It is why we are all continuing learning. This is a statement a guy told me once my great uncle. I was out riding horses about 14 years old. I knew all the gentle horses on the farm and at that age was fearless. I would jump on a horse no saddle no bridle and head out all over the farm. We had some i had been working not gentle. I got on one with nothing. Well i ate dirt and once very hard. When the dust cleared and my great aunt and uncle lifted me into the bed of the truck and I finally caught my breath. My uncle said what were you thinking. Me being tough as nails and 14 said i will get back on him blah blah blah. Well they hauled me to the house and they wrangled up the horse to the round pen. I was ready and adrenaline rushing. My uncle made me sit and soon dust coming up the gravel road from an old farm truck. Man gets out and sais is this him. Pointing at me. My uncle said yes. The old man with a grin said son you are not afraid of that horse. I said no sir. He said well since your not afraid do you know everything you need in order to break him. I said yes sir. He said well you should no longer ride then. I said why. He said i have road rode-ode most of my life. And i have been busted up. But not until i was like you and no longer had any fear (respect) and knew all i needed was i hurt so bad and could no longer ride because of it. I think we all can get over confident but i have learned that once I think i know everything about any subject is when i fail and fail big. I don’t think any one who is a great surveyor truly believes they know it all. I see surveyors arguing way to much over what’s right and wrong so someone has to be wrong. All of us at times. This site is awesome for that we all challenge and argue and learn all the time. I have learned many way to get to the right answer here. So I believe you are spot on. Teach lead those who want to learn. Those who know it all i just let them be. Me and my boss argue. Its not a disrespect type its a prove me wrong learning process on both sides. I probably understand gnss grid ground and can identify when and when not it will make a difference. So my geodetic background and least squares etc. I am all up in his grill on learning boundary and drafting etc. i know i beat him down asking and when he tells me something i go look it up read all i can come back ask more questions. I want to learn. He has called me many times in meetings or text or email about conversations that he knows i am educated on. Ask if so and so is stating something correct etc. Thats a professional he is humble enough to know he could have been doing it wrong or not fully understood what way he was taught. Thats how we grow and keep an amazing profession going. Listen and teach each other. As we all know sometimes it gets heated but if we were all perfect then we would have nothing to chat about. No mistakes would ever be made. You have a great way with words. Keep it up. I am learning from ya.
@frozennorth I usually in an interview state some examples of my mistakes before being hired. I the one being interviewed am also interviewing. I don’t want to work for someone that has not ever made a mistake and doesn’t tolerate mistakes by employees either. Thats a great question you can learn a lot about the potential new hire from those types of questions. I have some mistakes that i will never ever forget i have made as an i man crew chief rodman. I reckon if i never would have made them i would not have learned anything. So in ways i am glad i have made some. And learned from them. Glad the pls in charge made me own them as well.
@jitterboogie down south we would have said rover shucked the corn clean down to the cob. Lol. Oh I needed this read tonight. One of those days. Drive an hour and half to a meeting early this morning. Get the text kid is sick. Finish meeting drive home get kid start working remotely do three more meetings via internet . Get sick kid ready for drs. Wife takes her. I go get other child from chorus practice after school. Then off to fill prescription for sick child wife doing everything else and I still feel like i have not accomplished anything. Hardly no billable hours and a rough day ahead tomorrow. Between this site and hay season i can keep my sanity.
you got this.
I'm spoiled. just a former artichoke that burned through 8 good years off my life, I'll always be in your shadows. Thanks for your service, your candor, your enthusiasm, your credibility, your knowledge and your family.
We'll get a beer and shoot the breeze sooner than later.
stay on it, you got this.
@jitterboogie oh you will do great. I am just trying to get along. No one is in my shadow. I have a lot of growing to do before i can cast a shadow. I sure hope we can meet up sometime for sure. Always great meeting good folks. Now I have to hit the hay. I could not focus on studying tonight so i read here and watched a old tv show with Ronald Reagan and he did a little surveying lol. Laid out a small town for a $25 ferry fee. Made the night worth it all.
I certainly don't claim to know everything about surveying, not even close actually, but ironically the thing that has caused me the most problems is poor/mis communication. I've had interviews where the panel asks me about problems, causes, how they were solved, and I'd love to be able to say "You know what I had a rod bust and had to re-grade 30 hubs, and since I didn't do a check shot it was nobody's fault but my own", because when it's "Well, I had a meeting with a PM about a new project and they said A and I heard B, and the result was having to re-do part or all of some task" then I think it sounds like I'm trying to deflect blame.
I like the idea of asking the panel the same question though; I think the response would give some good insight into the company culture. I'll have to remember to do that if I find myself in that position again.
What we know about this situation is a lot less than what we don't know, but in addition to the clueless FNG tropes I've also observed an alternate dynamic in which the seasoned, wise, tenured employee is a gatekeeper whose status is threatened by a new ambitious worker.
@said-lot thats a leadership trait that is not good. No one has perfect leadership traits but I have witnessed that in all my adventures. In private sector and military. Thats why i always pounce like a wild cat when i hear people say that manager is in a leadership role. We as a society have tried to merge a title in a position with leadership. They are not the same. You can be a poor leader but grate manager. I have seen the lowest person on the team be the greatest leader. I have seen great leaders that were terrible managers or bosses. One thing is you can teach and train a manager you can help that. I am still not convinced you can teach leadership. You can teach the traits the principles but some just never have it. I think some are just born with it some struggle. Some don’t give a hoot they want job security so they try and rise by stepping on others. Its easy to spot them doesn’t take long. They i no longer worry about because life is to short to even worry about them. I just plow through or move on. Weasel is what I call those who love to create obstacles for those who block step on and put down those who are determined to learn and grow. A leader is followed regardless of his knowledge he/she finds those who are the experts and those who want to be and pushes them above him/her self. He/she is always looking out for others and not as worried about themselves. Lead follow or get the hell out of there way because the leader is going to rise sooner or later.
whose status is threatened by a new ambitious worker.
Happens a lot in government jobs.
and Lord of flies operations which unfortunately seem to be far to prevalent.
Happens a lot in government jobs.
far to prevalent.
How far is too far?
