Tape Survey

not my real name, post: 365384, member: 8199 wrote: what comprises a tape survey.

I've never encountered the term in my area. Maybe it's a regional thing.

I would agree with your definition of a tape survey. I recently sold my mother's house and the crew that did the survey for the title company did not break out a transit and did not find or set the rear lot corners. They merely dug up the front two, taped between, pulled a tape to the house and other improvements and left. They are common in south Florida and are just what you said, "cheap meaningless survey" fueling the fire against surveyors and the question of "Why do you charge so much?"

Not "meaningless" to somebody!

I think I would call that "quick and dirty".

It could even be correct, but will ever know without some sort of check.

McCracker, post: 365389, member: 9299 wrote: They are common in south Florida and are just what you said, "cheap meaningless survey" fueling the fire against surveyors and the question of "Why do you charge so much?"

Wow! If that isn't surveying in a nutshell, that should qualify as the quintessential metaphor.

What type of survey, and what sort of tape ?

Linear surveying with a tape was the first type of surveying that we covered in college.

I had a meter stick in college. We were tasked with measuring the height of a flagpole using the meter stick.

There are places where a quality steel tape is capable of handling the situation just as well as any electronic method available, if not better.

Just because the process appears to involve expensive, modern equipment there is no assurance of improved quality of performance.

Just like my example with the meter stick. I could accurately estimate the height of the flagpole.

However surveying is not purely a mathematical game.

In a tape survey the surveyor is given only the property deed and no research into prior deeds, that of adjoiners or other documents affecting title is expected.

At least that is what I imagine. I have yet to find a definition of what a tape survey is supposed to be except that it involves only a tape.

Linear surveying by direct measurement could be sometimes referred to as a tape survey. Or it may refer to a half assed survey as you describe. Without seeing what the attorney is describing it's hard to know.

In the wide open spaces, cross chain between all possible lines of site between all points of interest.

I have cross chained an entire back yard worth of as builts where the board fences restricted view.

:-O

"I could survey with a banjo if necessary." ~ TDD

The fact that a tape was the primary means of measurement is irrelevant without more information about the care used.

Back in the 1970's and 80's around here a work product known as a tape map was fairly common. It seems like banks would require them for loans, presumably driven by the title companies. On rural jobs we ran the occupation/deed with a compass and a tape. We showed the boundaries and improvements to the nearest foot with a big disclaimer. Probably most real estate professionals knew they were not any kind of real survey. No monumentation was shown from what I can remember.

I haven't been asked for one in over a decade or 2. And I don't think I have ever been involved in one since licensed in 1998.

not my real name, post: 365384, member: 8199 wrote: An attorney asked me what comprises a tape survey. My response was that it was not a survey. While I may on occasion locate objects using two tape distances from two reliable marks in construction it would seem like more effort than to use the survey instrument if many points needed location. So, I think it is a colloquial term meaning "cheap meaningless survey" created in order to minimize the surveyor's responsibility.

Do you agree?

Nope, don't agree. I would tell the attorney I don't know what it might mean to the one that told them of it. Then, tell them that if they will let me know the clients needs, I will offer an opinion of what they need and a proposal of how to accomplish it.

Don't let stakeholders define your profession in soundbites. They want to compartmentalize surveying services into specific commodities that apply to all situations. That kind of process has been, and continues to be, bad for the profession.

A tape survey as I know might involve more time than an electronic survey. Quite often the instrument to house corner observation might involve a setup on corner A, backsight to corner B, then ties would be taken on the house line to the observed line, then a swing tie to the observed line to get the shortest distances and then a pulled distance from a house corner to a property corner, then house taping. Very common in the days of transits and 3-4 man crews. These also may have included angle observations to a corner with distances from other easier observed points.

Quite often these surveys showed house ties on building alignment rather than normal to a property line.

Paul in PA

I've seen many plats from the 60's and 70's with notes on them that stated "based on a compass and tape" survey. Most of those surveys were of large mountainous tracts. The measurements weren't too accurate but they get you around the parcel and the boundary solutions seem to be sound.

Gregg

There's plenty of measuring you can do with a tape and be accurate. Compensating for sag, temperature, and the rest of the tape corrections. In my experiences though, the tape surveys I am familiar with did not include these and are typically inaccurate. This does not include double chaining improvements in the backyard where there is limited visibility or pulling the tape along the side of a house to locate improvements that way either. However, doing an entire lot survey with just a tape, including the control is not good practice.

At least in NH it is still perfectly acceptable to perform a compass and tape survey for certain classifications.

[INDENT=1] SURVEY CLASSIFICATION U for R for F-for[/INDENT]
Urban- - Rural- Farmland
Suburban Woodlots
Industrial
Commercial
Condominium
Multi-unit residential

PRECISION MEASUREMENTS (conventional closed traverse)
Unadjusted Linear Misclosure 1:10,000 1:5,000 1:300
Min. Scale Graduation
of Instrument 20 sec. 30 sec. 1 deg.
Distance Measurement EDM/Steel EDM/Steel Steel tape/
tape tape stadia
Elev. Used to Determine 0.2' +/- 0.5' +/- n/a
Property Lines

I've seem the term "tape survey" used around here (central Maine, very rural) to indicate what was generally known in the '70's & '80's as a "compass and tape survey," in which the research and reconnaissance etc. were supposed to be thorough and a hand compass and a 200' tape was used for the final measurements (tolerance being nearest foot). Quite adequate, in my opinion for large rural tracts where the boundaries are amply established by stone walls, wire fences, blazed lines, etc., and no one cares about the odd 2 feet or fraction of an acre -- not always the case though, and real estate people and lawyers and cheapskate private landowners back then would routinely assume that the process could be used on any parcel anywhere. The cost estimates they got from c & t surveyors and from more conventional firms were often big selling points. You're a landowner and you call a respectable firm and ask "How much to survey 100 acres?" and they say "Maybe about $6000" then you call c & t guy and he says "around $600," explaining nothing about the limits of the product. What are you going to do? Also I think some of the responses above have compass & tape surveys confused with Mortgage Loan Inspections and the like, which are still around and which most surveyors around here, and our licensing board, do not consider to be a survey at all.

Paul in PA, post: 365426, member: 236 wrote: A tape survey as I know might involve more time than an electronic survey. Quite often the instrument to house corner observation might involve a setup on corner A, backsight to corner B, then ties would be taken on the house line to the observed line, then a swing tie to the observed line to get the shortest distances and then a pulled distance from a house corner to a property corner, then house taping. Very common in the days of transits and 3-4 man crews. These also may have included angle observations to a corner with distances from other easier observed points.

Quite often these surveys showed house ties on building alignment rather than normal to a property line.

Paul in PA

When I first started surveying the old timers would say you were a pussy if you broke out the instrument on a two or four stake subdivision lot project. If improvements were needed to be shown we generally broke out the instrument, otherwise just tape. Crew chief would draw while I found monuments across the street side of the block. Then we measure with tape block corner to block corner and all in between that were found. Then measure across back (usually an alley) monuments and cross tape in missing monuments. The process was done quickly. If you weren't practically running you would hear about it. 1-2 hours on site was all allowed. If I recall, they charged $100 for a two stake (many times they were there and we just verified they measured correctly), $300 for a four stake, $500 for a four stake and building locations. That was about 1987 mpls, mn area. Made $8.50/hr as technician, crew chief at $12/hour. But we both knew how to measure with a steel tape. In practice, only needed correction is temperature. You test your tapes to know what pull is required to offset sag at standard. Nobody did sag and tension on every measurement, that would be stupid. You make the standard pull and correct with rule of thumb 15 deg away from standard temp equals 0.01. Very fast, very accurate, if one knows what they are doing. Frankly, faster and more accurate than an edm at close distance (if you know how). In fact, the old ALTA standards required tape at less than 200 feet because the edm's were unreliable at short distance because couldn't resolve atmospheric problems that close.

Tape survey? Maybe they want something more accurate that should be more expensive then?