If a document contains a surveyor's seal and signature, does it need to be notarized? Isn't a surveyor's signature considered the same as a notary? Is there state law that says yes or no?
I have a client that submitted my signed sealed document to his mortgage company, and they came back with a correction that the signature needed to be notarized. Just wondering if this is unusual.
Some want to tack on their own requirements to the mix. It is also a sign that they preferred someone else to have done the work.
I find such things a way to slow down your schedule and any requirements that come after I have sent my papers out is at the expense of the one making the requests.
If it takes more than I can do in house (solo operator), I give them an invoice for mileage and postage and/or delivery fees and demand that before anything is sent.
Most of the time they will wave that requirement.
Unless your BOR has set that requirement, it is not needed.
😉
It depends on what document and State. Here we only need notaries on affidavits. I find that ironic as we are allowed to take sworn statements ourselves....
Who notarizes the Notary? Another Notary?
Historically the value and responsibility of a public notary have varied, even from state to state. In some states a notary approached the responsibility of an attorney in a limited manner. A lot of attorneys were also notaries. If my memory serves me correctly Louisiana was one State that Notaries enjoyed a little bit of legal status. I'd like to hear from someone that knows of notaries' status in Louisiana today.
In common practice, a notary attests and witnesses the signature of many documents that have a legal weight, as in a contract or conveyance. Some transactions and conveyances require notarization by law. A survey falls short of a legal conveyance and although its importance is paramount, in Oklahoma a notary is not a legal requirement on a survey. It looks fancy and makes the cert look a little more important, but isn't really necessary. The County standards for a filed plat require all signatures to be notarized, but don't single out surveyors.
I believe as a professional our signature is a unique and determinable mark that requires no witness as to it's authenticity.
Wyoming requires a Notary statement and signature on all signatures on a subdivision plat. If I remember correctly without having to get into my old records, this involved all the certificates required on the face of the plat or a title sheet if there were more than one sheet. I do remember that there was at least two Notary statements, one being for the Certificate of Surveyor and the Certificate of Dedication. When I was operating my firm, I had a Notary stamp that I carried with me in case I had to Notarize a signature for some reason.
I don't believe your seal is the equivalent of a notary seal. I think that, primarily, a notary is certifying that they witnessed your signature. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, it certifies that it was you that signed it. (It would be a good thing if they caught or stopped someone who was stealing your seal, and signing as you) Your stamp certifies that the land-survey work was done by you and that you are a licensed land surveyor. Some land surveyors get their notary license and if they get someone to sign a statement, they put their notary signature and seal that they witnessed the signing (and checked the ID of the person who signed it.)
But as to your situation, I have never been asked to get a notary seal witnessing my signature. Many survey companies also have some staff that can notarize their signature if needed.
I permit through Conservation. One Town mandates that the property owner or the person with rights (P&S, though not required to produce the P&S) must sign the forms even though there is an option for the representative.
I would get into trouble with the BOR if I fraudulently signed the application. So I am unsure why.
> I believe as a professional our signature is a unique and determinable mark that requires no witness as to it's authenticity.
That is exactly what I thought. We are professionals sworn to uphold the law and protect the public. We can be brought into court as expert witnesses on our own merits. I will comply with the request, but I just found it unusual.
> It would be a good thing if they caught or stopped someone who was stealing your seal, and signing as you
What if someone steals a notary's seal? Maybe the notary's signature and seal needs to be notarized by another notary, whose signature and seal needs to be...
>Your stamp certifies that the land-survey work was done by you and that you are a licensed land surveyor.
Right. So if the document is survey work product, such as a map, a corner record, a description, etc., a notary has no business making any additional marks on it, unless it is also a document that is signed by the landowner or other party, such as the Owner's Statement on a subdivision map. In that case, the notarization is of the other parties' signatures, not the surveyor's.
Many states authorize the surveyor to take oaths regarding people's statements as to personal knowledge of facts affecting boundary locations. In such cases, the statements can be written in a field book or on on a separate paper. The landowner signs it swearing the statements are true and correct, and the surveyor signs it as the person authorized to administer the oath and as a witness to the statements made. I've yet to see a statute that authorizes the surveyor to take such oaths that also requires the statement to be notarized.
There are instances where a surveyor may sign a document or form and the content is not necessarily something that falls under the statutory practice of land surveying, and so is not something that only a surveyor may do. Depending on the purpose and content of the document, I can see that notarization may not be an unreasonable requirement.
> Who notarizes the Notary? Another Notary?
If a notary needs to acknowledge a document or make a sworn statement, the notary has to go to another notary (or some other official who has similar authority to a notary). (In case anyone wonders, one option for notarizing a document is for the signer to acknowledge his/her signature while in the presence of a notary; the notary "takes" the acknowledgement.
:good:
> What if someone steals a notary's seal? Maybe the notary's signature and seal needs to be notarized by another notary, whose signature and seal needs to be...
No disagreement, it is just a more legally-respected witness to your signature.... It is more likely to stop someone disrespecting your license, than being a disrespectful act against you or your license.
> >Your stamp certifies that the land-survey work was done by you and that you are a licensed land surveyor.
>
> Right. So if the document is survey work product, such as a map, a corner record, a description, etc., a notary has no business making any additional marks on it,...
Again, the notary is not in any way, shape or form certifying your work, approving it, or imputing in to it, it is only that s/he witnessed that you signed and stamped it.
> Many states authorize the surveyor to take oaths regarding people's statements as to personal knowledge of facts affecting boundary locations. In such cases, the statements can be written in a field book or on on a separate paper. The landowner signs it swearing the statements are true and correct, and the surveyor signs it as the person authorized to administer the oath and as a witness to the statements made. I've yet to see a statute that authorizes the surveyor to take such oaths that also requires the statement to be notarized.
I agree.
> ...Depending on the purpose and content of the document, I can see that notarization may not be an unreasonable requirement.
....that's all I'm saying. And if I didn't say it before, It would take me by surprise, and I have never seen this practice either.
Wyoming requires by state statute a notary on all real estate transactions that require a surveyor's signature. I've had two unnotarized subdivision plats signed by a surveyor circa 1979, that were recorded by an rancher that thought he could survey. The subdivision was a mess. The notary provides some form of assurance that it was filed by the surveyor who prepared the document or accepting responsibility for the work.
Pablo