It is reasonable for a property owner to expect his neighbors improvements to conform to zoning requirements. If he suspects they do not then hiring a surveyor is a much more adult response than the common one - making shrill accusations that have no objective basis. So I'd have no particular problem with doing such a job.
Here is what I might do. Take the job on the understanding that you will contact the neighbor, get permission to make the ties, and share the findings. If the neighbor refuses to allow it, your client can take that refusal to an attorney. If the client won't accept those terms then, yes, it's just a pi ing match which you will be clear of.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 401546, member: 291 wrote: Does anybody have software that lets you shoot the left side of a tree and the right side of a tree and the distance to the face and it computes based on the two angles the diameter of the tree puts the diameter of the tree into the point description and correct the distance for half the diameter of the tree
Trimble Access has a function where you shoot reflectorless to the face of a tree or pole, then turn the angle to the edge. The radius is calculated and added to the distance, so you get a point at the center of the tree. The radius is also shown on screen so that you can figure the diameter and add it to the descriptor.
I'm not aware of any similar function in Survey Pro and neither is my salesman. It's a major shortcoming of Survey Pro, IMO.
Sounds like a good way to get a free survey. Show your neighbor where you're going to build to, and tell him you meet the setbacks. If he agrees, you're golden, if he decides to get a survey you can use the surveyed line for your setbacks.
The way I'd remotely locate a vertical cylinder (tree, power pole, water tower, etc.) in the field is as follows: turn to the left edge, write down the angle, turn to the right edge, subtract the right-edge angle from the left edge angle for delta, divide by two, add half-delta A to left-edge angle and turn to that angle, which should be to the centerline of the cylinder, shoot a point P on the face of the cylinder, get distance D from the instrument to P, then fire up a calculator and solve for the radius:
R = (D * sin A) / (1 - sin A)
Then to generate the coordinates of the radius point, go from the instrument, on the bearing from the instrument to P, a distance of D + R. The cylinder's diameter is (2 * R). Not hardly automatic, though. And since most of the young guys I work with are from the post-calculator generation - they do all their coordinate geometry in the field in the canned survey program on their data collectors - they can't do this at all, because basically they have no idea what the phrase "sine of an angle" even means.
Mark Mayer, post: 401883, member: 424 wrote: Trimble Access has a function where you shoot reflectorless to the face of a tree or pole, then turn the angle to the edge. The radius is calculated and added to the distance, so you get a point at the center of the tree. The radius is also shown on screen so that you can figure the diameter and add it to the descriptor.
I'm not aware of any similar function in Survey Pro and neither is my salesman. It's a major shortcoming of Survey Pro, IMO.
Where in Access is that function located? I'd like to give it a try.
JB, if I were in your situation, I would probably turn it down as well. If you don't feel comfortable doing the job, let someone else handle it. Perhaps suggest that your potential client report the offense to local planning and see if they will do anything.
I turned it down...slept great that night.
Not to be too much of nag, but the tree centering hijack?
Although I now have a good reflectorless TS, it hasn't always been that way. And I took a similar job to "spy" on the client's neighbor's addition to the rear of his house. All my client wanted to know was that the building limits and ordinance set backs were being observed. I "triangulated" enough corners to satisfy myself.
As we all know there is never an exact answer to calculated field locations. We can get close, but there's always another answer if you figure it a different way. Near as I could tell the construction was attempting to follow the setbacks. My client wanted "exact" and I really couldn't give him the answers he wanted. One corner was about 0.15' out if you went one way, but was really close to the line from another setup. Hard as I tried there was always enough slop in the calcs to keep me from being able to unequivocally say one way or the other.
Hit send, you'll live longer.
JB, post: 401541, member: 346 wrote: I don't have reflectorless capability.
I think this is some sort of feud between the neighbors.
My hesitancy is inserting myself into a neighborhood dispute and following it through whatever action comes in the future. I just don't have the temperament for that anymore. Especially if it requires me to enter on to someone else's property.
I'm not interested in being anyone's cudgel.
Stake the property line and run your tape measure out to the structure.
I found an adjoiner's garage too close to the lot line and inside the utility easement as well. When he got cranky, I told him about it and said I was thinking about getting a utility marking order. He shut up real fast. He had moved the "property corners" as well.
I think you owe it to your client, should you decide to accept the job in the first place.
My first 6 years surveying didn't involve many disputes. I would get a call with coordinates or reference data from an observer, then blow up whatever was there. No argument.
In the 30 plus years since I have encountered a lot of nosy, persnickity and downright angry neighbors. The skills to calm them and reduce tension came to me through watching my bosses. Most of them were very good at either kicking the can down the road or feeding attorneys. The whole time I watched them I would relive the day the Sheriff came and gave my Mom some papers. That was when we switched to wood heat and started living very frugal.
Being on the wrong end of a poorly handled dispute will change your perspective. You see there are PEOPLE on both sides of every line. Some are world class Jenks, others are completely innocent. If we can help them solve problems, others have ways of sorting out who is who.
As a Profession, we need to educate ourselves in how to solve boundary problems. Our Boards don't do a lot to test our ability to do so, and our colleges don't teach it. We need to learn, do and pass it on. The highest compliment I've ever gotten from a field hand is 'How did you get him to calm down, I thought we were dead?'.
The basics of resolving disputes can be gotten from reading the law and a few dispute resolution classes. The ability to do it well only comes from a genuine desire to solve problems and some practice. If you combine that with a little business sense you can do well for yourself...
My .02, Tom
I've drawn a few surveys that show a neighbor's house, sometimes with an eave to show whether it's encroaching. I don't know about situations where one neighbor asked whether the other's house is beyond the setback though. I was just a draftsman then.
As to trees, I use the split distance and angle method. Put the pole next to the tree with one dipod leg in line with the center of the tree and the other in line with the gun (I've sometimes had trouble explaining this to my helpers). Hit measure on the gun, then turn it to the center of the tree and hit record. If the tree is big enough in the field of view that you can't see where the center is, this doesn't work, but taking two shots on opposite sides and averaging them should.
I show features on the adjacent property sometimes if they are close to the property line.
Also, I think the tree shooting hi-jack came from discussing locating an inaccessible point using trig since you don't have reflectorless.
Out of curiosity why not buy a cheap total station with reflectorless? I am thinking you could get one for like $3,000. I use that feature all the time. Even if you are getting by without it, it may be worth considering. Heck, if you are doing a lot of small lot surveys there are probably some jobs where you could shoot the whole thing reflectorless.
Dan Patterson, post: 402453, member: 1179 wrote: Out of curiosity why not buy a cheap total station with reflectorless?
Reflectorless is no longer a novelty. It's something every survey needs to stay competitive. I probably do 10%-20% of all my topo shots reflectorless these days. Buildings, signs, fences, poles, trees, anything that sticks up.
Mark Mayer, post: 402455, member: 424 wrote: Reflectorless is no longer a novelty. It's something every survey needs to stay competitive. I probably do 10%-20% of all my topo shots reflectorless these days. Buildings, signs, fences, poles, trees, anything that sticks up.
I actually prefer it for buildings. You can hit the corners without using offsets. I usually hit shots along the lines of the building too to help make sure the corner shots are good. (It only takes a second with reflectorless).
Yeah, I use it all the time too.
I did an entire half mile of of power poles in about 5 minutes flat. Peds, houses, etc.
Where it really shines is averaging lake setbacks with adjoiner's houses. They know darn well why you're measuring their houses, but when you can get the whole bunch of them with reflectorless, it makes life SO much easier. No explanations, ruffled feathers, or downright ornery owners.
