Can a survey company contract the services of a PLS?
Such a situation would be a land surveying company that is owned and operated by a non-licensed individual who conducts the field work and the drafting duties and contracts out a licensed surveyor who stamps & signs the drawings.
Short answer is a definitive NO. At least in the 3 states I'm licensed in. If you are listed in the phone book for providing professional services, you better have a registrant on board as a principle, or at least an employee, in the company.
The long answer is that some folks push that bubble... especially when it comes to 2nd, 3rd, 5th offices, with only one registrant on board. Unfortunately
In Florida...
No.
:coffee:
Most states require that a licensed individual own a certain percentage of a company. VA, for instance, requires that a licensed surveyor own a minimum of 67% of a surveying company.
In CA, a license must be held by at least one principle or manager of a firm who offers surveying services.
Even if the firm only performs limited services, such as field staking and traversing, it would require a license be held within the firms ownership or management.
There are other states which I believe the same is true.
Nopie, nopie in Oklahoma. In the first place they would NEVER be granted a business license to even say they are a Land Surveying Company so it would be a non-starter.
That said if they offered up Engineering services or such but then hired a PLS to do the boundary , and IF HE stamped the boundary and was in charge then this would okay as long as they did not say they were a Land Surveying Company.
Your comments and replies are very interesting.
So tell me then, how can it be that such a company exists here in the great state of Comirado? This particular firm is owned by ex-party chief and sets itself apart by providing the 'lowest fee' in topo, boundary and alta surveys.
How would this be any different than large engineering and/or architectural firms that prepare survey products and then track down the original surveyor to sign and seal. Common practice in Houston.
subcontracting - The other shoe - 6th
I don't know who you are, obviously, but I know that you know Colorado Law. Don't you have an obligation to report this company or party chief? These kind of people should be stopped, don't you think?
12-25-205. Unlawful practice - penalties - enforcement.
(1) It is unlawful for any individual to practice or offer to practice professional land surveying in Colorado without being licensed in accordance with the provisions of this part 2, or for any individual or entity to use or employ the words "land surveyor", "land surveying", or "professional land surveyor" or words of similar meaning or any modification or derivative except as authorized in this part 2.
(2) It is unlawful for any individual, partnership, professional association, joint stock company, limited liability company, or corporation to practice, or offer to practice, land surveying in this state unless the individual in responsible charge has complied with the provisions of this part 2. (3) Repealed.
(3.5) The practice of professional land surveying in violation of any of the provisions of this part 2 shall be either:
(a) Restrained by injunction in an action brought by the attorney general or by the district attorney of the proper district in the county in which the violation occurs; or
(b) (I) Ceased by order of the board pursuant to section 12-25-209 (8.2) to (8.9).
(II) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2006, p. 784, § 18, effective July 1, 2006.)
(4) Any person who practices or offers or attempts to practice professional land surveying without an active license issued under this part 2 commits a class 2 misdemeanor and shall be punished as provided in section 18-1.3-501, C.R.S., for the first offense, and, for the second or any subsequent offense, the person commits a class 6 felony and shall be punished as provided in section 18-1.3-401, C.R.S.
(5) It is the duty of all duly constituted officers of the law of Colorado, or any political subdivision thereof, to enforce the provisions of this part 2 and to prosecute any person violating this part 2.
(6) The attorney general or the attorney general's assistant shall act as legal advisor to the board and render such timely legal assistance as may be necessary in carrying out the provisions of this part 2. With the concurrence of the attorney general, the board may employ counsel and assistance necessary to aid in the enforcement of this part 2, and the compensation and expenses therefor shall be paid from the funds of the board.
(7) Any individual practicing professional land surveying, as defined in this part 2, who is not licensed or exempt shall not collect compensation of any kind for such practice, and, if compensation has been paid, such compensation shall be refunded in full.
(8) After finding that an individual has unlawfully engaged in the practice of professional land surveying, the board may assess a fine against such unlawfully engaged individual in an amount not less than fifty dollars and not more than five thousand dollars for each violation proven by the board. Any moneys collected as an administrative fine pursuant to this subsection (8) shall be transmitted to the state treasurer, who shall credit such moneys to the general fund.
No law can restrict the majority ownership of a surveying company to a licensed individual. The only requirement for the company performing professional surveying services is that a licensed individual is in responsible charge and an employee of the company, not that it has to be wholly or partially owned by a licensed surveyor. It is wishfull thinking to believe otherwise.
AS3
> No law can restrict the majority ownership of a surveying company to a licensed individual. The only requirement for the company performing professional surveying services is that a licensed individual is in responsible charge and an employee of the company, not that it has to be wholly or partially owned by a licensed surveyor. It is wishfull thinking to believe otherwise.
I think you will find that a state to state issue, not some kind of federal corporate law. Also, how do multi-discipline firms exist, ie. A/E firms who provide survey services. Two of three principles must be registrants, and they hire the third.
Locally there is a dual registrant (PE & grandfathered in PLS) who works as a sole proprietor, not as a business entity. He is not even in the phone book. All his work is word of mouth, and being a retired county staff engineer - he has lots of connections. Major PIA for the rest of us (he is major low baller), but it seems we (us other local business owners) can't do anything about it, as he does do borderline ok work. Something wrong with that picture IMO, and I hope the IRS catches up with him.
> No law can restrict the majority ownership of a surveying company to a licensed individual. The only requirement for the company performing professional surveying services is that a licensed individual is in responsible charge and an employee of the company, not that it has to be wholly or partially owned by a licensed surveyor. It is wishfull thinking to believe otherwise.
VA 18VAC10-20 (Qualifications for Registration as a Professional Corporation)
530.D - Board of Directors. A corporation may elect to its board of directors not more than 1/3 of its members who are employees of the corporation and are not authorized to render professional services.
At least 2/3 of the board of directors shall be licensed to render the services of an architect, professional engineer, land surveyor or landscape architect...
590.C.2. - (Qualifications for Registration as a Professional Limited Liability Company)
Pursuant to 13.1-1111 of the Code of Virginia, as amended, the articles of organization or operating agreement shall provide that not less than 2/3 of the membership interests of a PLLC rendering the services of architects, professional engineers, land surveyors, or landscape architects or using the title of certified interior designers, or any combination thereof, shall be held by individuals duly licensed or professional business entities legally authorized to render the services of architects, professional engineers, land surveyors, or landscape architects or by individuals or professional business entities legally authorized to use the title of certified interior designers.
> No law can restrict the majority ownership of a surveying company to a licensed individual. The only requirement for the company performing professional surveying services is that a licensed individual is in responsible charge and an employee of the company, not that it has to be wholly or partially owned by a licensed surveyor. It is wishfull thinking to believe otherwise.
>
> AS3
North Carolina has such a law that does exactly that. Having said that, this topic has been greatly confused in this area for a number of years.
A corporation that provides land surveying services must have a majority of the ownership in the hands of licensed professionals. There is an exception to that rule for those corporations what existed prior to this law being enacted.
A sole proprietorship does not have to be owned by a licensed individual. But that firm must have a licensed individual in responsible charge. So, if you pass away your spouse can continue to operate the business (after hiring a PLS). Once you set up a corporation, that option goes away.
Larry P
David - Correct me if I'm wrong but
requiring 2/3 of the board of directors to be Licensed Professionals is not the same as requiring 2/3 of the company to be owned by licensed professionals.
> How would this be any different than large engineering and/or architectural firms that prepare survey products and then track down the original surveyor to sign and seal. Common practice in Houston.
I won't argue about whether or not it is common practice in your area. I suspect it is common practice in lots of areas. But I wonder why any PLS would put their license on the line by signing and sealing documents when they were not in responsible charge of the work. Doing that sort of thing is begging for trouble and definitely puts ones license on the line. Every state code of ethics that I have seen (most of them) includes a section that indicates we will sign and seal documents only when we were in responsible charge.
Larry P
Such is the outcome when some individual state boards overstepped their authority and reached into the domain of corporate law. Instead of licensing individuals, they've somehow bought into the idea that a corporation could be equated with an individual, therefore, the flawed logic was surmised that a corporation could obtain a professional license. They then reached beyond their authority to license individuals and have imposed restrictions upon corporate ownership.
I doubt that line of thinking will stand up to a legal challenge.
Just my personal opinion...
JBS
Larry
> A corporation that provides land surveying services must have a majority of the ownership in the hands of licensed professionals. There is an exception to that rule for those corporations what existed prior to this law being enacted.
1.) Does that apply to ALL corporations or is that a specific requirement in a "Professional Corporation Act". If so...
2.) Are surveyors who incorporate required to use the professional corporation route, or can they use a "standard" incorporation.
David - Correct me if I'm wrong but
I just quoted a small portion of this section. It does go on to talk about stock ownership, 2/3 of which has to be held by licensed individuals.
Larry
Good question Jim. Not sure and no time to research it just now. Hit me up again next week if someone else doesn't step in with the answer.
Larry
> Such is the outcome when some individual state boards overstepped their authority and reached into the domain of corporate law. Instead of licensing individuals, they've somehow bought into the idea that a corporation could be equated with an individual, therefore, the flawed logic was surmised that a corporation could obtain a professional license. They then reached beyond their authority to license individuals and have imposed restrictions upon corporate ownership.
>
> I doubt that line of thinking will stand up to a legal challenge.
>
> Just my personal opinion...
>
> JBS
You might be right JB. On the other hand, these rules have been in place quite some time now without any clear rulings that strike them down.
I can tell you the logic behind the rules is that they do not want "the company boss" to make decisions that over ride the "professional opinion" of the licensed individual. That same logic would seem to apply to Sole Proprietors but I think the board believed they did not have authority over them.
Larry P
