A client desires to place a fence along his boundary line and he calls two surveyors.
One surveyor indicates that a Boundary Survey is required and the fee will be $1,850.00
The other surveyor tells the perspective client that he can put stakes in the ground for the placement of the fence for a fee of $300
I'm pretty easy going on this, but IMO the only way such a situation can be called construction surveying is if the pins are in and have been verified by a recent survey. I know some will argue that any time a survey involves the boundary lines, it's boundary surveying. I understand, I'm just not willing to go that far. I would allow using recently verified pins as survey control to stake a fence.
Pretty Close to the way I look at it.
If someone wants me to mark a line through the middle of their property without approaching any boundary lines - construction staking. This doesn't seem very likely as there would be no real concern of where the fence actually ends up.
If someone wants to put a fence along their property line, they are hiring me to tell them "This is your Property Line" first and foremost, then they want stakes to be able to memorialize their property line with a fence - boundary survey followed by construction staking.
If I remember correctly, there was a similar discussion not too long ago
at the state board level in Oregon.
Quite an interesting read if I remember right.
It might still be posted in their "law enforcement" minutes.....
My nickles worth?
Setting hubs, for the construction of improvements based on some one
elses work that may have they been moved by the neighbor? Or the "client"
for that matter, seems fraught with pitfalls.
Wouldn't "due diligence" require you to at a "minimum" tie all corners
from the "record" survey monuments prior to setting a boundary line
reference for construction purposes? And that, only if you completely
agree with the boundary resolution of the record surveyor? Even then,
your completely relying on someone elses "resolution" of the boundary
lines to set those references. What if they were wrong in their
"assumptions" when they set those "new" monuments?
Isn't a fence a improvement that is commonly used to delinate a boundary
to most anyone? Wouldn't it pay for itself in peace of mind it it were in
the RIGHT place? (I'm guessing it's why they wanted to hire a surveyor to
set those hubs to begin with)
Seems the price difference is the age old question, Price? or Right?
Oops... dropped that nickle..... gotta go...
> A client desires to place a fence along his boundary line and he calls two surveyors.
>
> One surveyor indicates that a Boundary Survey is required and the fee will be $1,850.00
>
> The other surveyor tells the perspective client that he can put stakes in the ground for the placement of the fence for a fee of $300
If he wants stakes set for a fence along his boundary line it's a boundary survey. Plain and Simple.
Maybe the $300 surveyor has already done the boundary work as park of some adjacent work? Possible? Even then....300 is too cheap.
Boundary surveying - unquestionably...
> A client desires to place a fence along his boundary line and he calls two surveyors.
>
Well, it is gonna take the services of a boundary surveyor to do this.
> One surveyor indicates that a Boundary Survey is required and the fee will be $1,850.00
>
> The other surveyor tells the perspective client that he can put stakes in the ground for the placement of the fence for a fee of $300.
Heck, I can put "stakes in the ground" for $300. It is just gonna cost much more to put the stakes "along his boundary line".
What one "professional" thinks his service is worth, another cannot change. Buyer beware.
Posting the boundary line is the definition of a Boundary Survey. The cost is up to the surveyor; maybe the cheap guy knows the lot and where the pins are and it's just a matter of a few checks and running in a few lath.
Not every survey is a huge production.
I just did one that took less than an hour. I already had a drawing, dug up all the pins which matched the drawing, tied them, they checked, then left lath on them for the new fence. How long should that take?
But I knew the area and all the people, so....
I'm pretty easy going on this, but IMO the only way such a situation can be called construction surveying is if the pins are in and have been verified by a recent survey. I know some will argue that any time a survey involves the boundary lines, it's boundary surveying. I understand, I'm just not willing to go that far. I would allow using recently verified pins as survey control to stake a fence.
My question would be "what is recent?"
If I had a boundary done by a licensed surveyor and a day later the fence guy comes and uses his corners for the fence layout, is that ok?
If I had a boundary done by a licensed surveyor and a week later the fence guy comes and uses his corners for the fence layout, is that ok?
If I had a boundary done by a licensed surveyor and a month later the fence guy comes and uses his corners for the fence layout, is that ok?
If I had a boundary done by a licensed surveyor and a year later the fence guy comes and uses his corners for the fence layout, is that ok?
Are any of these or none of these considered "recent"?
It depends. How's that for a definitive answer?
It all comes down to my degree of comfort with the controlling monuments. Did I put them there? Was it the guy who lost his license a couple of years back? Were they put there 40 years ago by the guy who died 35 years ago? Are they bent? Do they not match the record monument descriptions? How tightly do they agree with the nearest other monuments in the relevant area? Is this fence actually a 10 foot tall concrete and stone wall with gargoyles on top or is it a few wood posts and a couple of smooth wires to generally show where each neighbor should mow and plant flowers?
Would your answer be different if the guy asked you to set a couple of points for him 10-feet from the property line that he says will mark where he wants to put his garden and have a uniform patch of grass between the garden and the property line?
What is the client trying to accomplish.
It isn't too difficult to lay out a straight line anywhere.
If the client wants the fence to be on the boundary line then it is more than simply dropping a straight line of ginees out there. It's kind of like the old joke about itemizing the bill: 10 ginees, 4.95; 50' of flagging, 3.95; 10 laths, 6.95; knowing where to put all of that stuff, $2000 (or whatever fits the situation).
If the fence is "on the job site" I'd consider it construction.
If the fence is along the boundary I'd call it boundary.
Apples and Oranges. A boundary survey will determine the location of the boundary and will result in monuments marking at least the corners. Anyone can determine the location of points along the line represented by the monuments.
As long as the monuments exist (they've already paid for a survey), staking a line between the points is layout work. The one staking the line is liable for properly running the line. The surveyor who set the monuments is liable for their correct placement. The landowner is liable for what happened between the time the monuments were set and the line was staked.
JBS
> Apples and Oranges. A boundary survey will determine the location of the boundary and will result in monuments marking at least the corners. Anyone can determine the location of points along the line represented by the monuments.
>
> As long as the monuments exist (they've already paid for a survey), staking a line between the points is layout work. The one staking the line is liable for properly running the line. The surveyor who set the monuments is liable for their correct placement. The landowner is liable for what happened between the time the monuments were set and the line was staked.
>
> JBS
OK- If I'm following this, then a non-licensed tech should be able to stake the fence line since it is only layout work.
> OK- If I'm following this, then a non-licensed tech should be able to stake the fence line since it is only layout work.
As long as the boundary has been determined, of course. Does it take a professional land surveyor to stretch a string line? Layout is a technical process. Determining the boundary location is a legal process that requires a licensed surveyor.
JBS
> > OK- If I'm following this, then a non-licensed tech should be able to stake the fence line since it is only layout work.
>
> As long as the boundary has been determined, of course. Does it take a professional land surveyor to stretch a string line? Layout is a technical process. Determining the boundary location is a legal process that requires a licensed surveyor.
>
> JBS
From a practical standpoint, real world situations are not that cut and dry.
On a regular basis I see the following:
A survey tech moonlights and sets stakes for a fence line in a subdivided area in which there are no pins or marks on the line that the new fence is going to be placed. - The survey tech. stakes the line based upon found survey markers that are off site, adjacent properties and across the street.
Survey tech then winds up in a lawsuit because someone built a fence in the wrong place based upon his stakes. Survey tech decides to not do any more moonlighting.
"If someone wants to put a fence along their property line, they are hiring me to tell them "This is your Property Line" first and foremost...." Maybe. If the existing monuments are intervisible and there is nothing along the line to prevent stretching a string, the owner or fence company could do it themselves. If there are trees, swamps, thorn thickets, etc., along the line, maybe the owner is hiring the surveyor because he has the equipment and skills to run a straight line along those segments were it is possible to build a fence, and not due to any uncertainty about whether the existing monuments represent the true boundary.
> From a practical standpoint, real world situations are not that cut and dry.
>
> On a regular basis I see the following:
>
> A survey tech moonlights and sets stakes for a fence line in a subdivided area in which there are no pins or marks on the line that the new fence is going to be placed. - The survey tech. stakes the line based upon found survey markers that are off site, adjacent properties and across the street.
What do you mean, it's "not that cut and dry"? The scenario you followed with clearly has a survey tech determining the boundary, then staking the fence. Looks pretty cut and dry to me. Survey techs can't determine the boundary. They can determine the location of a row of stakes between two points that happen to mark a boundary as determined by a licensed surveyor.
I don't see any room for confusion.
JBS
