Since we have a pretty sizable Kentucky contingent

Per KY Standards of Practice, the definition of a boundary survey is the determination of the boundaries of a tract or parcel of land or the determination of a portion of the boundaries. A plat is defined as any drawing representing the work of a land surveyor.

I agree: all three situations would require a boundary survey; all three situations would require a plat.

As worded, each one would constitute a boundary survey. There is a very little bit of wiggle room in 2 and 3 if worded differently.

If you aren't going to say that anything you find is a property corner, then you can find pins all day long, just like a carpenter can measure all day long as long is it doesn't pertain to boundary measurements. This is a legal loophole that I'm sure would be frowned on by our peers. In option one where you must determine the location of a corner and set it, I don't think the slipperiest lawyer of them all could say that was not boundary surveying.

If the words "property corner" or "property line" come up in conversation not preceded by "this is not" then it is boundary surveying and follows all the requirements as such.

I would like to point out that I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here and don't necessarily condone such actions.

Jon,

I agree with you, Tom, and David. All work is considered boundary
surveying. A plat of survey would be required.

> on Beer Leg, I would appreciate you guys providing your opinions on a matter.
>
> Within the past couple of years, I have been asked my opinion of the following from a couple of different licensees. I would like to hear others take on it.
>
> Situation One:
> You are asked to mark a side line for the construction of a fence. You find the monuments at the two ends, but have to re-set the angle in the middle (easily determined based on good prior survey data). You mark the line with stakes.
>
> Situation Two:
> You are asked to survey a lot in a platted subdivision. Subdivision is 5 years old and done by a reputable company. You find all corner monuments in and within reasonable amount of error. You flag and set stakes beside the monuments.
>
> Situation Three:
> You are asked to mark the corners of a property and are provided a copy of a 10 year old survey by another licensee. You walk the property and find all monuments in place. You flag and stake the monuments found.
>
> Which of these scenarios requires a boundary survey meeting the Kentucky standards of practice?
>
> Which of these scenarios requires preparing a plat of survey per Kentucky standards of practice?
>
> Since I am asking, I'll provide the answer I gave. It is my interpretation of the standards of practice that all 3 scenarios are boundary surveys and all 3 require preparing a plat.

1. Yes, a corner was set.
2. Yes, they asked for a survey.
3. Maybe, maybe not. If all that was done was walk and flag monuments, no. Any more, yes.

I agree all three need a plat of survey. I would hope that in scenario three that you would actually set up a gun and check the pins to be sure that the pins were in their proper location.

Matt

Matt

I lost a sizeable job to a low bidder (now in jail) and rumor had it that he paced the property with a compass, found the corners and called it good. I suppose that he did have an instrument of sorts.

Thanks for the replies guys.

From conversations and experiences with other surveyors in the area, there seems to be two camps of thought on some of these matters. Especially the idea of 'finding corners' vs. surveying.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Finding corners vs surveying? Finding corners is surveying. My 0.04'.

Tom,

That 'wiggle room' in 2 and 3 is actually the impetus for the discussions. There was actually an office with an internal disagreement that sought an outside opinion. So they asked about four other folks in the area for their take on it.

Thanks for the replies guys.

:good: times a million

the definitions at the beginning of the standards of practice make that pretty clear to me

Thanks for the replies guys.

:good:

Thanks for the replies guys.

> From conversations and experiences with other surveyors in the area, there seems to be two camps of thought on some of these matters. Especially the idea of 'finding corners' vs. surveying.

How does one know what has been found is a corner unless and until one does the measurements to confirm or dispute the initial assumption?

Larry P

Tom,

I am sure I know who you are speaking of. He would plot out a deed and make it look real good but the "survey" (and I use the term extremely loosely) was not worth the paper it was printed on.

Matt

Thanks for the replies guys.

Exactly Larry.

The 'reasoning' I have been presented with is "they didn't ask me to do a survey - just to mark the corners".

Here is an example of how the conversation goes:

Me: You know that the standards definition of "boundary survey" is:
a survey to:
a - Determine either the entire perimeter of a parcel or tract of land, or a portion of the perimeter of a parcel or tract of land;

b - establish or re-establish a parcel or tract of land's corner or monument; or

c - divide or consolidate the parcels or tracts of land surveyed

Wouldn't you agree that you have determined and re-established the perimeter of the parcel by marking the corners?

Them: But I didn't do a survey, I just flagged the corners up. So the definition doesn't apply.

Me: In Section 4 of the standards:

The marks and monuments on the ground as found and verified, or as set by a professional land surveyor shall constitute the actual boundary survey.

Being a professional land surveyor and finding marks on the ground and flagging them as corners seems to constitute a boundary survey.

Them: But I didn't measure them, I just flagged them up. So I didn't verify them. It's not a boundary survey.

Me: So you provided a couple of pieces of flagging and stakes that may or may not be the property corners and that you will not stand behind? What was their purpose in hiring you to flag the corners?

Them [indignantly]: Well they wanted to know where their property was!!

AND THE CIRCULAR CONVERSATION BEGINS AGAIN.

Thanks for the replies guys.

I usually charge $100 to locate monuments around a platted lot where monuments are known to have been set. If I don't locate one or more and they need to be replaced, I will do a survey and set new monuments and deduct the corner search fee from the total if it has been payed previously, it is only one part of a proper survey, recovery of monuments alone is not a survey, it is monument recovery. Here, if you set a monument you file a Survey Record with the County Surveyor, you don't when all you do is recover existing monuments.
Statute rules my roost and opinion is worthless. I would look upon charging for a survey plat when all that was done was the recovery of existing monuments, as usury but this is not Kentucky..
jud

Thanks for the replies guys.

Larry hit the nail on the head....

Thanks for the replies guys.

> opinion is worthless

:good: So true.