Simple Layman's Question about distances

I would guess that line "A" is correct, but I would check both. Typically we like to measure horizontally.

break out your geometry book!!

typically, a distance recorded by a surveyor will be the horizontal distance. simple trig.: a²+b²=c². In your case the slope distance would be the square root of (318² + 200²).....375.7feet. If it was a steady slope...get you close enough for looking if you can go in the right direction.

Depends on when the description you have was written. Older descriptions were sometimes "by the lay of the land".

-V

> ...or is there an easier way to find the stake?
The easiest way for you would be to hire a guy who does this sort of thing for a living to do it for you. I understand that you want to avoid an expense, but just don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

Also, keep in mind that there is a strong possibility that there is nothing there to find. And if you do find something back there, it isn't necessarily your corner.

Good Luck.

Typically distances are horizontal but sometimes old deed descriptions were measured out along the ground. This is highly local.

I would measure out 318 feet on the ground, mark that with something temporary, then measure additional needed to get 318' horizontal then search at both locations.

Bear in mind direction is very important too and may be true, magnetic or something else.

Tom's principle is good, but the accuracy of the elevation change may not be adequate. It certainly does suggest another place to look, though.

As others have indicated, knowing how old the original measurement is may indicate whether slope or horizontal was used. A professional who works in your area would have a better sense of local practice.

Nowadays, surveyors use instruments that measure distance to a reflector and compute the horizontal component from the slope angle.

The way they did/do it with a tape or chain is to "stairstep" the slope. Hold the up-slope end of the tape on a point, pull it really tight and horizontally for maybe 50 feet, and use a plumb bob at the downhill end (or drop a marker object and see where it hits). Then move to that point and repeat.

It is easier to tape going downhill than uphill, so I'd pick a point near where you think the upper stake might be and measure down to the known stake. Then figure out how much closer or farther you need to move from your guess.

I believe he got 200' from the change in elevation from the low corner to the high.

Bill, I subtracted 2,300ft from 2,500ft. 😛

I wasn't getting all detailed. Just a away to get someone to searching distances, not trying to teach how to get accurate measurements, and use instruments and all.

Sorry, I didn't read carefully enough before posting. Then I immediately did figure it out and corrected my post while you guys were composing your replies. If anyone wonders why you replied - know that there was at that time good reason for correcting me.

Hey you set us up!. Ha ha...it was obvious you missed the elevation changes on your first post. No problem.

I took his first post as a simple question as to whether our distances on plats were slope distances or horizontal distances (and was pointing out that it doesn't really take a lot of studying of geometry books to get the reduced distance). I didn't really want to get into other intricacies on accurate measurements.

> The easiest way for you would be to hire a guy who does this sort of thing for a living to do it for you. I understand that you want to avoid an expense, but just don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

If I were building a fence or something, I would agree 100%, but I'm really just curious.

This land is so steep and rocky and wooded and large that I think it would be cheaper to buy everything West to the street than to survey it. Then I would know where it ended. Seriously, this dirt is dirt cheap.

Wow. I never expected so many great answers so fast.

Thanks to you all.

I have a few related questions.

As I mentioned to Norman, I'm really just curious, you can't do anything with this land other than appreciate it.

The survey references "a stake". I thought "a stake" would be an official looking thing. Like, a 3 inch round disc with writing on it. Is an official looking thing "a marker", whereas "a stake" would be a more basic thing? Maybe your previous answers apply, local custom.

Compounding the issue is the fact that there is a main city water line buried approximately along the property line. There are stakes along the route, but we are unsure if the stakes mark the waterline, or the property boundary.

Typically, when you survey a mountainside, do you place additional stakes along the route to help you keep your place when stair-stepping as Bill described, or would you assume additional stakes along the route have to be marking the water line because there's no need for a surveyor to mark midpoints to keep his place?

Unfortunately, the referenced stake at the starting point is actually under the street, so I can't look at it and compare. There is a simple nail, like you would use to nail a 2x4, pounded in the street. I'm told the stake is below the nail. Ah, West Virginia, I love it.

I have found a few of these bolts below along the boundary line, not knowing if these mark the water line, or if a surveyor put them there to help keep his place. The deed only references stakes at the corners, not along the way.

> Bear in mind direction is very important too and may be true, magnetic or something else.

I suspect in Appalachia, it's something else!

I'm not familiar with WV practice. Out here a stake refers to a wooden stake.

If a bolt is called for in the Deed then it would be called a bolt.

Chaining likely would've been done to temporary points called chaining pins, those are pulled out of the ground as the surveyor proceeds along. The only permanent points are at the corners except sometimes the surveyor set intermediate points on line if the client requested it. If this is timberland there may be blazed trees, also look for yellow paint.

West Virginia deeds are notoriously vague and old. "Stake" in the literal sense would today be a wooden lathe with flaggin on it not lasting more than a few years if you are lucky...in WV though, back in the day a stake was anything that stood as a property corner. That could be: a wooden lathe, axle, bolt, mining implements, fence post, flat iron rod, mining spike, rail road spike, rail road rail, iron pipe (all sizes) or anything else they could easily set and call 'stake'. But it has been awhile since working in the great state of WV...I pass this to DLee.

Blue Flagging

I'd be a little suspicious of the blue flag. Blue paint is water and blue flagging usually goes with it. I've used blue and striped and all kinds of ribbon but it makes you wonder. That there roof bolt was probably acquired in the same manner as rail road spikes are acquired. Ask the local water company what their surveyors use as markers. Maybe they have a map.

That's a nice find BTW. Take a couple buddies along and find out if they're in a straight line.

This description in your deed may have been first written generations ago and regurgitated in each successive deed as the land passed from hand to hand. In that time a wooden stake may have rotted away and been replaced with another, then another, then a piece of whatever scrap iron was lying around, like some old bolts. And iron doesn't last forever. I've seen iron monuments rot away in 10 years in some conditions (I've also found 80 year old paper in near perfect condition). So it goes.

Sounds similar to East Tennessee. "Stake" can be anything you can imagine, even a non-monumented mathmatical point.