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SIGN THIS!!!

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(@joe-the-surveyor)
Posts: 1948
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SURVEY CERTIFICATION

The undersigned hereby certifies to __________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________, a ______________________, as agent and its successors and assigns, ___________________Title Insurance Company, and ___________________________________, that:

1. (S)he is a duly registered land surveyor of the State of __________.
2. The survey reflected by this plat was actually made upon the ground on _________________, 20__.
3. This map or plat and survey on which it is based were made (i) at least in accordance with the minimum standards established by the State of __________ for surveyors, (ii) in accordance with the "Minimum Standard Detail Requirements for ALTA/ACSM Land Title Surveys" jointly established and adopted by ALTA and NSPS in 2005, and includes Items 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7(a), 7(b), 7(c), 8, 9, 10, 11(b), 13, 16, 17 and 18 of Table A thereof, and (iii) pursuant to the Accuracy Standards as adopted by ALTA and NSPS and in effect on the date of this certification, the undersigned further certifies that in my professional opinion, as a land surveyor registered in the State of ______________, the Relative Positional Accuracy of this survey does not exceed that which is specified therein.
4. Said survey correctly shows the location of all buildings, structures and other improvements situated on the ____ acre tract known as _____________________ _________________________________________________(street address) (the "Premises") shown thereon.
5. The Premises is made up of one or more tax parcel numbers that cover the Premises in its entirety and does not include any other land.
6. Said Premises is a separately subdivided tract.
7. All utilities for the operation of the Premises are available at the lot lines, enter said tract through adjoining public streets and do not run through or under any buildings or improvements.
8. There are no violations of zoning ordinances, restrictions or other rules or regulations with reference to the location of all buildings, structures and improvements situated on the Premises and the number and configuration of parking spaces.
9. Except as shown, there are no visible or recorded easements or rights of way across said Premises.
10. There are no other easements or rights of way of which the undersigned has been advised.
11. There are no encroachments onto adjoining premises, streets or alleys or any easements burdening the Premises by any buildings, structures or other improvements, except as shown, and no encroachments onto said Premises or easements benefiting said Premises by buildings, structures or other improvements situated on adjoining premises.
12. Said Premises do not lie within any flood hazard areas.
13. All roads, streets and highways shown therein are completed and dedicated public streets and have been accepted for public maintenance.
14. The Premises has access to a dedicated public street or streets known as ___________
______________________________________________.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 7:57 am
(@marc-anderson)
Posts: 457
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No.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 9:50 am
(@a-harris)
Posts: 8761
 

"NO"

When someone has sent me their version of a certificate of survey, I have always edited those parts that are asking too much out.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 9:50 am
(@cyril-turner)
Posts: 310
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Boy must be nice having that x-ray vision to certify #7 and since when is it or job to make sure everything is in comliance with zoning regs. 30 years ago they may have been and today probably not!

Cy

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 9:50 am
(@mightymoe)
Posts: 9920
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I agree on #7. But with #8 they are asking you to certify to building codes and all rules and regulations regarding this property; and building uses! No doubt an inspector could find any number of violations just walking past any existing building. Maybe it's a regional thing but "tax parcel number"? Why would that show up?

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 10:04 am
(@darrell-andrews)
Posts: 425
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That "tax parcel number(s)" statement seems to imply gaps or overlaps if any exist.

By the way, "HELL NO" signing this.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 10:11 am
(@surveysc)
Posts: 192
 

I would, but I would make some heavy revisions to it first.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 10:26 am
(@david-livingstone)
Posts: 1123
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It seems like I see one of these once a year. Offer to sign it, just tell them it will be an extra. When they ask how much, just make up some number, like $80,000.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 10:33 am
(@kris-morgan)
Posts: 3876
 

No. I didn't get past the 10th word.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 10:36 am
(@adamsurveyor)
Posts: 1487
 

> SURVEY CERTIFICATION
>
> The undersigned hereby certifies to __________________________________________
> ___________________________________________________________________________, a ______________________, as agent and its successors and assigns, ___________________Title Insurance Company, and ___________________________________, that:
>
> 1. (S)he is a duly registered land surveyor of the State of __________.
> 2. The survey reflected by this plat was actually made upon the ground on _________________, 20__.
.....
> 6. Said Premises is a separately subdivided tract.
> 7. All utilities for the operation of the Premises are available at the lot lines, enter said tract through adjoining public streets and do not run through or under any buildings or improvements.
> 8. There are no violations of zoning ordinances, restrictions or other rules or regulations with reference to the location of all buildings, structures and improvements situated on the Premises and the number and configuration of parking spaces.
> 9. Except as shown, there are no visible or recorded easements or rights of way across said Premises.
> 10. There are no other easements or rights of way of which the undersigned has been advised.
> 11. There are no encroachments onto adjoining premises, streets or alleys or any easements burdening the Premises by any buildings, structures or other improvements, except as shown, and no encroachments onto said Premises or easements benefiting said Premises by buildings, structures or other improvements situated on adjoining premises.
> 12. Said Premises do not lie within any flood hazard areas.
> 13. All roads, streets and highways shown therein are completed and dedicated public streets and have been accepted for public maintenance.
> 14. The Premises has access to a dedicated public street or streets known as ___________
> ______________________________________________.

Tell the lawyer asking you to sign this, that they are the legal expert and you would need a written opinion from them as to whether the show improvements are an encroachment, and that you need their opinion as to whether the easements actually benefit the property. Tell them that you need a legal opinion from them as to whether there are violations of zoning ordinances or rules or regulations. you get the picture...They won't sign anything.
Why don't they tell you, while they're at it, whether the roads and streets are properly completed, dedicated and accepted.....

Ask them why it is in the third person and then switches to first person. Who are you certifying is a registered land surveyor: The title company and/or the client?

Maybe tell them that they would need to pay you to have your lawyer and your e&o insurance carrier look it over and edit the statements prior to your signature.

Them there lawyers, sure spend time writing fancy words that do not cover your butt...but try to make you sign to legal and impossible opinions.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 11:45 am
(@cee-gee)
Posts: 481
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Without a qualifier like "to the best of my knowledge and belief" you should only sign this if you're confident that you never miss anything or make any mistakes. You are essentially guaranteeing your product and not just your standard of care.

I think I wrote about this at least once on the old board: I once went to a seminar which featured one of the attorneys who writes these things in one of the Chicago skyscrapers and he said he "couldn't believe how many of you guys sign this stuff." Just think of it as similar to the manufacturer's list price on a new car -- it's a place to begin negotiations on what you will eventually sign. But if they are recalcitrant, just say no.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 12:46 pm
(@snoop)
Posts: 1468
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This is the RBC (USA) certification right? I sign it often but I always reword it first. No way I would sign as is. They have not had a problem with it so far.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 1:01 pm
(@stephen-johnson)
Posts: 2342
 

Not in its present form.

If they want 16, 17 & 18 of table A, why did they not send the HUD certification? They are HUD only as specified in the standards.

If they insist on this cert, after some serious revisions, they also lose the Name ALTA/ACSM LAND TITLE SURVEY. Without the specified cert it no longer meets the ALTA/ACSM standards.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 2:20 pm
(@guest)
Posts: 1658
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You can just strike out everything after paragraph 3 which defines it it as an ALTA/ACSM survey. That's all they need to know. As for the certification, you can only certify to the entity engaging and paying you, I.E., the title company. No successors and assigns to them or the current owner. The title company would never do that!

But get some actual legal advice on your own before signing anything that is not strictly ALTA/ACSM boilerplate.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 5:25 pm
(@boundary-lines)
Posts: 1055
 

Most municipalities will provide a letter for number 8, for a fee, after a site inspection. I don't really see a surveyor as being the one to make this determination.

 
Posted : December 8, 2010 6:01 pm
(@squinty-vernier)
Posts: 500
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Spot on Carl. I've used this line of reasoning to iron the matter out several times. Generally the conversation goes...

Surveyor - "You require an ALTA?ACSM survey, correct?

Legal Beagle - "Obviously."

Surveyor - "Check your email. I have just sent the 2005 MINIMUM STANDARD DETAIL EQUIREMENTS FOR ALTA/ACSM LAND TITLE SURVEYS. Please see number 8. Any certification other than that shown negates the title of an ALTA/ACSM Survey. The additional claptrap you are asking for is covered, in language acceptable to the ALTA format, in the Table A items.

Legal Beagle - "Ummmm."

Rick

 
Posted : December 9, 2010 3:28 am
(@mark-mayer)
Posts: 3363
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#7 and #8 are both obvious deal killers.

These are the same guys who need this done by January 3, right? Stick to your guns. No non-standard certifications.

 
Posted : December 9, 2010 7:41 am